Greenbacks vs Creambacks in a 1960(B/BV)

Sorenspete

Inspired
So.........

As I've mentioned before (I go on and on about this), I live in New Zealand and finding decent speaker cabinet brands is nigh on impossible. I know guys who have Bogner 4x12's but I believe they were acquired during a brief window in which it was possible to buy them from a boutique retailer. That retailer no longer responds to inquiries and the business is assumed to have gone under.

MESA / Boogie as you will be well aware is in a transitionary phase of acquisition, so retailers have run dry of the tried and true 4x12 Rectifier Oversized cabinets. Add to that the fact that our used market pool is tiny compared to the US, Europe/basically anywhere else, and that's one less option. If anyone has any suggestions or advice on purchasing 4x12's internationally, I'm all ears...

My plan at the moment is to purchase a 1960 B/BV and replace the speakers with Greenbacks or Creambacks (if I go through with this, I will do this twice for a monstrous 2x 4x12 stereo setup). From my research the G12-T75's in the stock 1960B are virtually irredeemable. The Greenbacks seem to have excellent pronounced mids, mellow highs, and excellent low-end. The Creambacks are slightly higher wattage so will have a bit more headroom.

  • Has anyone here done what I am proposing to do?
  • Are Creambacks a better choice for high-ish-to-high-gain applications (think Steve Lukather). From the audio I've heard, Greenbacks fair extremely well for low tunings and high-gain.
Edit: so I just remembered that Marshall make a 1960BX with Greenbacks. However I think my question still stands about Greenbacks vs Creambacks.
 
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So.........

As I've mentioned before (I go on and on about this), I live in New Zealand and finding decent speaker cabinet brands is nigh on impossible. I know guys who have Bogner 4x12's but I believe they were acquired during a brief window in which it was possible to buy them from a boutique retailer. That retailer no longer responds to inquiries and the business is assumed to have gone under.

MESA / Boogie as you will be well aware is in a transitionary phase of acquisition, so retailers have run dry of the tried and true 4x12 Rectifier Oversized cabinets. Add to that the fact that our used market pool is tiny compared to the US, Europe/basically anywhere else, and that's one less option. If anyone has any suggestions or advice on purchasing 4x12's internationally, I'm all ears...

My plan at the moment is to purchase a 1960 B/BV and replace the speakers with Greenbacks or Creambacks (if I go through with this, I will do this twice for a monstrous 2x 4x12 stereo setup). From my research the G12-T75's in the stock 1960B are virtually irredeemable. The Greenbacks seem to have excellent pronounced mids, mellow highs, and excellent low-end. The Creambacks are slightly higher wattage so will have a bit more headroom.

  • Has anyone here done what I am proposing to do?
  • Are Creambacks a better choice for high-ish-to-high-gain applications (think Steve Lukather). From the audio I've heard, Greenbacks fair extremely well for low tunings and high-gain.
Edit: so I just remembered that Marshall make a 1960BX with Greenbacks. However I think my question still stands about Greenbacks vs Creambacks.
I'd not say that Creambacks have more headroom, rather the contrary. In fact to my understanding Creambacks have a sensitivity of 97dB while greenbacks are rated at a 100dB sensitivity so more efficiency in transforming the amps output current to membrane movement. In other words knowing that 3dB is like doubling volume, at full power you should experience close to the same volume for a 60W Creamback compared to 30W Greenback. But you're loosing headroom from your power Amp as you have to drive it at higher wattage.
 
I'd not say that Creambacks have more headroom, rather the contrary. In fact to my understanding Creambacks have a sensitivity of 97dB while greenbacks are rated at a 100dB sensitivity so more efficiency in transforming the amps output current to membrane movement. In other words knowing that 3dB is like doubling volume, at full power you should experience close to the same volume for a 60W Creamback compared to 30W Greenback. But you're loosing headroom from your power Amp as you have to drive it at higher wattage.
actually the Greenbacks are 97dB and the Creambacks are 100dB.

OP

and there is also the V30 and V-Type (a "polite" V30)

or a mix.. as #gibsonash indicates above.. for a B cabinet i would go diagonal..but thats me.
 
So.........

As I've mentioned before (I go on and on about this), I live in New Zealand and finding decent speaker cabinet brands is nigh on impossible. I know guys who have Bogner 4x12's but I believe they were acquired during a brief window in which it was possible to buy them from a boutique retailer. That retailer no longer responds to inquiries and the business is assumed to have gone under.

MESA / Boogie as you will be well aware is in a transitionary phase of acquisition, so retailers have run dry of the tried and true 4x12 Rectifier Oversized cabinets. Add to that the fact that our used market pool is tiny compared to the US, Europe/basically anywhere else, and that's one less option. If anyone has any suggestions or advice on purchasing 4x12's internationally, I'm all ears...

My plan at the moment is to purchase a 1960 B/BV and replace the speakers with Greenbacks or Creambacks (if I go through with this, I will do this twice for a monstrous 2x 4x12 stereo setup). From my research the G12-T75's in the stock 1960B are virtually irredeemable. The Greenbacks seem to have excellent pronounced mids, mellow highs, and excellent low-end. The Creambacks are slightly higher wattage so will have a bit more headroom.

  • Has anyone here done what I am proposing to do?
  • Are Creambacks a better choice for high-ish-to-high-gain applications (think Steve Lukather). From the audio I've heard, Greenbacks fair extremely well for low tunings and high-gain.
Edit: so I just remembered that Marshall make a 1960BX with Greenbacks. However I think my question still stands about Greenbacks vs Creambacks.
I have found that getting good IRs can really represent what a real speaker will sound like in the room with you. From all my IRS I like the Creamback 65s best. I would say try some of those out and see which you like best. They are all free in your Fractal. I even found that I like Orange cabs best.
 
I have found that getting good IRs can really represent what a real speaker will sound like in the room with you. From all my IRS I like the Creamback 65s best. I would say try some of those out and see which you like best. They are all free in your Fractal. I even found that I like Orange cabs best.
Orange cabs have a deeper & tighter bass response..through thicker ply, larger, heavier and skids vs feet.. oh..and built to survive a tornado...


Glory-Days-Music-Joplin-Tornado-Dave-Peterson-Orange-2x-cab-under-car.jpg
 
I have a 1960A cab that had G12T75s in it. It sounded fine, and I think the knocks on these speakers are more forum talk than substance. The cab was nice, though the previous owner had “fixed” holes in the grill cloth by completely cutting it out! No problem, as I bought it for a project anyway. I replaced the grill cloth with a nice old checkerboard Marshall cloth, took out and sold the 75Ts, and popped in a set of UK-made Greenbacks. I have a PRS HX/DA head, which is the most accurate to old Plexi sound I have found, and it absolutely roars through that cab. The greenback was a very common speaker in classic rock, and it definitely has that character. But it also does surprisingly pleasant cleans. It’s a versatile setup, and I have no regrets. Looks like this:

1MNwU2i.jpg


I also put a pair of Celestion Neo Creambacks into my Mesa Road King yesterday (talked about this in another thread). I mention it here because they have a very similar flavor to the Greenbacks and get great loud, full cleans as well. 4 of them in a 4x12 cab would be sweet, and it would be light too. Not cheap, but a great option, IMO.
 
No they are not. Pls check Celestion site for reference datasheets.

Cream back and Creamback NEO are at 97dB
G12H30 55Hz greenback are at 100dB

fwiw, G12H30 isn't the Greenback.. it is, iirc, the G12H30 Anniversary.
The G12M is THE greenback, mostly because it is the one speaker with a green back.

none of this helps the op, so am out.
 
fwiw, G12H30 isn't the Greenback.. it is, iirc, the G12H30 Anniversary.
The G12M is THE greenback, mostly because it is the one speaker with a green back.

none of this helps the op, so am out.
Why don't you just check the data sheets ? They're freely available on the web.
THE Greenback heritage series exist in both G12M25 and G12H30 versions.
Even I agree that if it's not of utter importance, it's good to be aware that differences of efficiency can make a speaker of lower wattage sound "louder" and help you out sometimes with a smaller power Amp. The EV12L Classic for example runs with 100dB sensitivity which can therefore make sound a small Amp like the Fender Superchamp as loud than a 60W combo with 2 60W Cream backs at the condition they sound as you like.
 

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This weekend I tried a Creamback Neo in a 112 G&A standard cab I received last week , using one of these Harley Benton 100W mono amps. The Fractal does a good job without cab IR's also ! A tiny bit more trebble for this creamback neo than the G12H25 Greenback I used to have many years ago, as far as I can remember, but comes really close though and I like the dynamics and speaker compression of a guitar speaker driven at power.
Still I decided to keep a FRFR backline as at band volume the difference is not as important as I thought it would be. OK you get this in the face sound of an amp/guitarcab without a mic, it's definitely there, but at volume the difference is not enough to justify the hassle to adapt all my presets. At lower volume I prefer the FRFR solution.
 
This weekend I tried a Creamback Neo in a 112 G&A standard cab I received last week , using one of these Harley Benton 100W mono amps. The Fractal does a good job without cab IR's also ! A tiny bit more trebble for this creamback neo than the G12H25 Greenback I used to have many years ago, as far as I can remember, but comes really close though and I like the dynamics and speaker compression of a guitar speaker driven at power.
Still I decided to keep a FRFR backline as at band volume the difference is not as important as I thought it would be. OK you get this in the face sound of an amp/guitarcab without a mic, it's definitely there, but at volume the difference is not enough to justify the hassle to adapt all my presets. At lower volume I prefer the FRFR solution.
Thanks for your reply.

I expect that I'll keep my Yamaha HS8's for the time being if nothing if not for messing around with W/D/W using the 412 for dry. If I get a second cab (whatever that cab ends up being), it will be interesting to see how the three configs compare.
 
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