Gonna byte the bullet tonight with Q12

andyp13

andyp13

Power User
today I setup my Axe at one end of my lounge and my guitar cab and Q12 FRFR at the other.
And tried each cab in turn.
When I stood near the cabs the Guitar cab won hands down however, when I stood at the other end of the room the guitar cab became quite shrill and sounded very different. The FRFR maintained its sound much better, obviously it was not the same as standing near it, but at a distance it's sound did not change as much as the real guitar cab.
So, on that basis I'm going to try the FRFR as my backline tonight. The band is just using a vocal rig so no micing up will be done.
Hope this works
 
andyp13 said:
today I setup my Axe at one end of my lounge and my guitar cab and Q12 FRFR at the other.
And tried each cab in turn.
When I stood near the cabs the Guitar cab won hands down however, when I stood at the other end of the room the guitar cab became quite shrill and sounded very different. The FRFR maintained its sound much better, obviously it was not the same as standing near it, but at a distance it's sound did not change as much as the real guitar cab.
So, on that basis I'm going to try the FRFR as my backline tonight. The band is just using a vocal rig so no micing up will be done.
Hope this works
Click to expand...
bet it will, easily.
 
The audience will thank you. That directional ice pick that is listening to a guitar cab on stage from the audience perspective is just what your hearing.

When I used to cover a lot of concerts for Kerrang! I'd always be at the front of the stage, in front of the barricade (Kerrang! type shows at least lol) and the stages were usually about 4-5 feet high. So a 4x12 bottom cab would be basically right at ear level and I'd be about 10-15 feet in front of it. Talk about loud and directional sound, especially with v30's. Move about 5 feet further right or left though and sound totally drops out. I usually just show 3 songs and then left, but made me feel for the poor kids on the other side of the barricade that were going to get blasted by that cab for a 2 hour set....
 
I bottled it and wish I hadn't :-(
I set up and did a quick sound check, it sounded quite different - a little mid range heavy and the overdrive a little 'thick and flubby' I thought I'm going to be spending most of my time tweaking (whenever possible as I am also the singer) so I thought I had better stick to what I know and swapped it out for my Guitar cab. Sorry, I'm gigging tonight but don't want to try the Q12 tonight as its an important gig.
TBH I think half the problem is me, I just worry about using FRFR as a backline and not having my guitar through FOH. Particularly as I read that the majority of users have the FRFR as a personal monitor and not as their main backline (other than Black bitch).
 
You gotta dial it in at playing level at band practice. I would never recommend doing a quick tone check by yourself in a room then jump on a live stage.
 
Also just going through each factory cab in turn is going to be really tough. The problem is when going from one IR to another completely different IR is shocking to the ear. You might be going right by great IR's but not know it. What kind of cab and speaker are you using? I'd recommend spend $30 on a cab pack of what you are used to and then scroll through a bunch of similar IR's until you find the right one. This will take many sessions to sneak up on the perfect IR.
 
Have you considered shooting an IR of your actual cab ? That way you can get the tonal response your used to with your cab, but the advantages in dispersion and consistency with your FRFR speaker
 
I've been playing now 3 years with my Matrix Q12a's and it took a while till got it sorted out - I never place them on the floor, especially wooden stage floors, as at loud level the bass gets very dominant. I always have them on a chair and when there is enough space I put them high above on box stands. You need to tweak them at gig level - once you've got the hang of it, you can pre-tweak at home but still would need to do adjustments and will never sound like your guitar cab. It's the sound of miced speaker. I'm so used now to my Q12's I don't like anymore playing with a real amp and cab. I hope you get it sorted out man. Don't give up yet - I had the same experience and feelings for almost a year (3years back with fw 6 or 7) so with fw Q7.02 it might go quicker changing to FRFR, but I would never want to miss it. I love the sound now and little weight to carry. ;)
 
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Thanks guys, I won't give up yet, I will hang fire and use it in rehearsals and see if I get on with it.
Iqdsnddist - I have tried an IR of my cab, it sounds ok but it dosen't sound like my cab.
My guitar cab is a 1x12 cab with an 125w eminence tonkerlite in it, even though I only use this and though the Q12 is a 250w it is much smaller and maybe this is a factor of why it just does not look right - perhaps my eyes are influencing my ears.
My guitar cab sounds like it has a warmth and body to the sound, the Q12 see the to have a lot of top and bottom with nothing in the middle. (I have quite a lot of treble rolled off and quite a bit of bass off). It seems to lack mid range and as a result sounds a little 'honkey'.
 
Well Andy try some of my presets an Axe Change, as they are all tweaked for my Q12a and have a look what I do. For me it's so normal now - I can't really tell what I do. And yeah...the biggest problem is the size of it. It doesn't look like rock'n'roll at all. I was thinking in the beginning to put the Q12 inside an empty Marshall Box, haha. But you gut used to it - I'm sure.
 
andyp13 said:
I just worry about using FRFR as a backline and not having my guitar through FOH. Particularly as I read that the majority of users have the FRFR as a personal monitor and not as their main backline (other than Black bitch).
Click to expand...

I use FRFR (EV 112p) for backline and it works just great. I wouldn't be afraid to try it but maybe a lower-stakes gig is the one to make the plunge ;) I have used the QSC K12 as well, but found it a touch harsh compared to the EVs.

Good luck!
 
Cheers, I will have another look at your presets....
I will copy your cab settings into one of my presets and see what it sounds like.
I did buy some ir's but can't even remember what they are as I could not hear any difference between the ones I bought and the ones that came with my Axe fx - they all sounded like there's a honky switch on full......
Which is why I shot my own, it was a slight improvement, but I always tend to gravitate to the 1x12 brown cab (one of the presets) as I found it to be slightly less honkey than all the others.
 
I think that "honky" sound you keep talking about is exactly what will make you cut thru the band mix and sound awesome. One thing with IRs I always do is cranck the HP in cab block to 140-160 hz and the LP to 5k-7k depending on the IR and that gets them sounding and feeling like a real cab. Hope this helps.
 
I'm using at the moment mainly the mix ir's from the Ownhammer "Green Vintage Player Pack" - you can only buy them the Fractal Store. For me they have plenty of midrange and sound very natural. But everybody is different, so I don't know if it would work for you, but that is my experience at the moment.
 
Not trying to talk you out of anything Andy, but I use real cabs and love them. Nothing else I've tried gives me the sound or the feel I need like my cab. That said, I agree...the further away from a cab you get, the more abrasive it can sound. BUT........

If you are hearing your cab with your band across the room, your stage volume is insane. Cabs are best mic'd using a mic that accentuates the cab in the right area as I'm sure you know. And when you mic St close range, you won't hear anything abrasive unless your sound guy is clueless.

Raw stage volume will kill not only your people watching you, but your ears. My volume is very low on stage. The reason being, I'd like my sound man to do his job. I either have him feed me through my vocal monitor or my in ears. This way no one hears any raw volume ever and the sound of my cab can shine through the PA.

Nothing in my opinion makes it worth it for me to leave my cab home. I've tried creating DI sounds to be sent to the mixer...though they were decent...huge difference using my cab.

I personally don't mind bringing a few Marshall 25 watt greenback cabs. It not only sounds better than anything else I've tried with my Axe-Fx, it looks cool to me.

Most of the time now though, I set my stuff up facing me from the side of the stage. I play in a Van Halen tribute band on the side where we have part of the 1984 stage plot. Cab props all over the stage. So we just side fill me and I'm never loud enough to bother anyone....but man does it sound great with my cab.

Tried the matrix and one other....and had a guy in my studio that brought something else....can't remember the name. But nothing topped my cab sound along with my Axe-Fx and AX8. They just sound and feel so much better with my cabs.

One more little thing to try if you haven't. Never eq any cab blowing at your knees. Especially a real cab. Always elevate it to ear level and eq that way. This way if you can hear yourself from a distance, it shouldn't be as bad because you compensated for some of the high end abrasiveness.

I can't tell you how many guys came and recorded in my studio thinking their tone was from God Himself.....until we mic'd them up and they heard what they REALLY sounded like. Once we eq'd them St ear level, their entire world changed for the better. Whatever you decide...best of luck. :)

-Danny
 
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