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Gone back to FV2.00 for now. Anyone else?

jakbur

Experienced
These are only my personal assessments and I would like to know if others are like minded so that our assessments may be considered in future 'Firmware Updates'.
Let me say that I have spent hundreds of hours developing my own patches(sounds) for the Axe Ultra and other Axe ultra users appreciate my patches. I also have spent considerable time tweaking the Axe2 FV2.00 and 3.02 with great results.
I am not using my Axe for recording so I will not make a personal judgment as to which FV works better in that application however, I play FR, live, mainly using cleaner to just into overdrive sounds mainly and love the sound and more importantly the feel of FV2.00c.
I definitely see the usefulness/genius in all the new parameters of 3.02 but personally would like added to the version 2.00 sounds starting point! FV3.02 seems well suited for high to very high gain but the feel that literally grabs my soul is missing in the lower drive sounds on 3.02.
Obviously, Cliff has created a quantum leap in this new devise which already has multiple ultimate firmware versions that have genius, personality and value in there own rights! Maybe this should be a new product(custom firmware) for Fractal Audio!
 

stratzrus

Member
I'm not switching yet.

I've got a big gig coming up and need to spend my time writing and rehearsing at this point, not tweaking parameters. I'll probably switch after the gig though.
 

antcarrier

Power User
I would love to have a 'pentode/triode' switch which would (if I understand correctly..) essentially make the amps behave like they do in either v2/v3. For clean sounds there are some amps which I prefer in v2. For drive, v3 rocks!
 

babuka

Inspired
The Fender amps in 3.0 are no doubt better to me, they sound spot on. The high gain amps are better. With 3.0 I can bring up a clip(song, youtube, etc) where amp 'A' is being used; I can then bring up that same setup in the Axe-Fx II (amp, cabinet, speaker, mic, etc.). The amp models sound dead on to the actual amp, I don't really hear anything that is missing. So far the only amp that I have not had this experience with is the Soldano SLO-100. It just doesn't sound like a lot of clips I find online no matter how I dial it in. Which is weird, because in 3.0 I have found you don't need the precision dialing in as on previous models, it is more like a tube amp in that it is easy to get good tone everywhere with the settings (to an extent).
 

LostInSpace

Inspired
I went back and forth, and decided that 2.0c is fine for me right now. I prefer not to mess much with the numerous advanced parameters because I don't really have a handle on how to use them (I'm no amp designer). I prefer to take stock presets that are close to what I need and make simple tweaks. I don't think some of the 3.0 presets show improvement from 2.0, which is a shame. 3.0 may well be a leap forward, but for those of us without the time/inclination to redial and get 3.0 to shine, it's hard to see the benefits.

Fractal's innovation is admirable, and whether 2.0 or 3.0, the AxeII is awesome. I'm sure as 3.0 matures users will post great presets, and I'll probably jump on board after lots of others have conquered the learning curve.
 

cragginshred

Fractal Fanatic
The easy fix is update to 3.02 and re-load your favorites you saved without doing the switch amp back and forth to keep your 2.0 tones. I did this on some and am also using many tones from the 3.02 and have the best of both worlds.
 
There's no way I'm going back to V2.0. My reason is that I didn't have tons of hours in tweaking before 3, so I've been able to just start from scratch. It makes life a lot easier than having to go through again and touch up everything. I'm very happy with the tones I'm getting, and I know that it's just going to keep getting better.

I can see having to change back if you had a band you were playing a bunch of tunes with and suddenly you'd have to go and redo everything right before a show or something. Otherwise, I say go with the flow dude. It'll only get better!
 

BMH

Inspired
Why wouldn't you upgrade? Your presets remain the same when reloaded. I am not following this thread at all.
 

GM Arts

Power User
Why wouldn't you upgrade? Your presets remain the same when reloaded. I am not following this thread at all.

version 3 release notes:

NOTE: THIS VERSION WILL LIKELY CHANGE THE SOUND OF EXISTING PRESETS. THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS CHANGES AND IMPROVEMENTS. YOU SHOULD AUDITION ALL YOUR PRESETS AFTER INSTALLATION AND CHECK FOR PROPER OPERATION AND TONE ... etc
 

jakbur

Experienced
That would de the best of both worlds as I just spent a few hours playing and fine tuning 2.00 and sorely missed using the new parameters in 3.02 and could not get the heaver drive to sound as sweet!
I would love to have a 'pentode/triode' switch which would (if I understand correctly..) essentially make the amps behave like they do in either v2/v3. For clean sounds there are some amps which I prefer in v2. For drive, v3 rocks!
 

EpicAxe

Member
This is the downside of software driven products.

No matter what, as the product evolves, you are going to spend an enormous amount of time tweaking and re-tweaking

Best advice is if you like what you're hearing...DON'T UPGRADE

If you're in the middle of a project...DON"T UPGRADE

If you're preparing for a big live show...DON"T UPGRADE

The benefit of software is it will continue to evolve and improve

The downside..

Once it reaches it's ultimate point of perfection...

Axe FX 3 will hit the market
 

jakbur

Experienced
I am now spoiled for both FVs as flavors from both are now essential!
Im going to load 3.02 again tomorrow and continue my journey on it. I guess I can always reload 2.00 and my 2.00 patches when needed for gigging and then switch as really nothing is lost that way.
 

axel

Power User
I am having to work with 3.0x a bit to get the low-mid gain tones I had with 2.0, but I don't want to get left behind. I think it's probably better in the long run to just get used to it. The key is finding the parameter settings that get you back to where you were (if needed).
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
I am having to work with 3.0x a bit to get the low-mid gain tones I had with 2.0, but I don't want to get left behind. I think it's probably better in the long run to just get used to it. The key is finding the parameter settings that get you back to where you were (if needed).

The keys to doing this are in my post about 3.0.

Lower your triode setting, lower your power tube hardness, slightly lower your Transformer match. Relearn the drive - Master Volume relationship. It is a VERY different kettle of fish. Throw out any of your preconceptions and conventions with regards to your master volume settings and your drive settings. Virtually the entire range of the parameter is now a sweet spot. Don't try to dial up your amps using the settings from 2.0, 1.0 or Gen1. Use your ears.... and trust them.

For heavier tones, leave the Triode, Power Tube hardness and Transformer Match at their default and enjoy the edge and attack. Crank the gains, and lower the MV to 2.00 and tweak from there. Some amps like the MV even lower than that now.

No matter what your tone you are chasing, turn off the room stuff in the cab block when tweaking your sounds. Try them again later, after you are dialed in.

Turn up the speaker drive, start at 1.20 or so. Trust me.

The proximity parameter is the money parameter. This is where you dial in your 'thump thump' and then can set the details with the amp block. I am all over the place with this control - but love a SM57/R121 mic set panned center on complementary speakers in the cab. I can have the setting anywhere from 2.00 to 5.00, though I end up around 3.50 - 3.75 a lot.

I've done 3-4 live gigs now, about 5-6 rehearsals (where I carry the room with my powered monitor used as a backline) and it's stellar for cleans, pushed clean, OD, and distortion. Trust me guys, the tools are there. 2.00 cannot compare; the RW IR's are too bassy and require far too much low cut IMHO to be useful live. 3.0 brought reworked RW IR's that sound even and the proximity control that allows you MUCH more range and negates (for me) any of the custom mixing of IR's that I had depended on for years now.

I am in heaven with 3.xx. :D
 

jakbur

Experienced
Thanks Scott,
I have discovered some of your insights thru experience with 3.04 but it is useful to have your process (listed above) in the order you have stated. The new parameters are very interactive and the order of adjustment is essential to keep from going round and round.
 

electronpirate

Moderator
Moderator
IMO. IMO. IMO.

My entire view is that if you spend that much time tweaking a patch (or several), then something is wrong.

Once you learn how to use this, it should NOT be a grinding painful road if a simple firmware update is applied. I, myself (an admitted 'don't care' kind of guy, but at least diligent enough to learn the unit...) was able to pull out excellent tones tweaking supplied presets (including changing amps and getting them to my tastes) in roughly 1 minute.

I TOTALLY understand those who are proprietary, covetous, and/or somehow believe that their patches are better than all others. But I still think I have perspective that sais it doesn't matter if I have Dweezil's patches...I ain't going to be able to get what he can out of them. Because of guitar, signal chain, fingers, any number of reasons.

IMO, 3.x (with the voicing option) is by far the easiest update to get great tones in zero time at all. I'm of the opinion that most folks who complain are dissatisfied with their playing more than the actual amp (i.e. I play GREAT one day, lousy the next...). If the Axe has to spend all it's time adjusting to you, then reconsider. When I get too crazy on tweaking, I take the most horrible tone I can find, and use my fingers to MAKE it sound great. I make the most gains that way in a short amount of time, and when I change to a stock or regular patch, HOLY smokes do I sound good.

I'm going FRFR. With very MINOR tweaking (mostly getting more 'squishyness' out of the amps by bias adjustments, etc), I can get most of the stock (in the 1st 30) presets gig ready and sounding incredible. Alone, some of them sound iffy, but I've taken to pumping my music through my Fratomic's and seeing how my patches play in that mix...for the most part it's worked.

Just feel like if you can't get the JCM800 model sounding right after a month, MOVE ON.

I'm really not trying to be insulting, but from long experience, 99% of the problems I've seen have been because there's something wrong in the chain, or they just didn't turn if up enough to actually hear what's going on (pretty important). And that 99% will say (post) 'It's broken', 'its not my fault', 'it worked fine before', or 'my <insert modeler> sounded better than this'. We're here to help as much as we can, but there is no substitute for learning the unit (with all the accompanying pain and effort that will take.)

Prost.

Ron
 

Axe5288

Inspired
IMO. IMO. IMO.

My entire view is that if you spend that much time tweaking a patch (or several), then something is wrong.

Once you learn how to use this, it should NOT be a grinding painful road if a simple firmware update is applied. I, myself (an admitted 'don't care' kind of guy, but at least diligent enough to learn the unit...) was able to pull out excellent tones tweaking supplied presets (including changing amps and getting them to my tastes) in roughly 1 minute.

I TOTALLY understand those who are proprietary, covetous, and/or somehow believe that their patches are better than all others. But I still think I have perspective that sais it doesn't matter if I have Dweezil's patches...I ain't going to be able to get what he can out of them. Because of guitar, signal chain, fingers, any number of reasons.

IMO, 3.x (with the voicing option) is by far the easiest update to get great tones in zero time at all. I'm of the opinion that most folks who complain are dissatisfied with their playing more than the actual amp (i.e. I play GREAT one day, lousy the next...). If the Axe has to spend all it's time adjusting to you, then reconsider. When I get too crazy on tweaking, I take the most horrible tone I can find, and use my fingers to MAKE it sound great. I make the most gains that way in a short amount of time, and when I change to a stock or regular patch, HOLY smokes do I sound good.

I'm going FRFR. With very MINOR tweaking (mostly getting more 'squishyness' out of the amps by bias adjustments, etc), I can get most of the stock (in the 1st 30) presets gig ready and sounding incredible. Alone, some of them sound iffy, but I've taken to pumping my music through my Fratomic's and seeing how my patches play in that mix...for the most part it's worked.

Just feel like if you can't get the JCM800 model sounding right after a month, MOVE ON.

I'm really not trying to be insulting, but from long experience, 99% of the problems I've seen have been because there's something wrong in the chain, or they just didn't turn if up enough to actually hear what's going on (pretty important). And that 99% will say (post) 'It's broken', 'its not my fault', 'it worked fine before', or 'my <insert modeler> sounded better than this'. We're here to help as much as we can, but there is no substitute for learning the unit (with all the accompanying pain and effort that will take.)

Prost.

Ron
When I had my ultra the 11.0 FW really hit the sweet spot, as much as I liked the sound before, now "to me" it really came alive. Now with my Axe2 the 3.02 FW has done the same thing, as good as it was before it is better now. I havent changed anything in my signal chain from my ultra 11.0 to my Axe2 3.02. With the time I have in my studio, I use alot of the presets as is and just play, and man do they sound awesome. I play thru 2ea. Atomic powered wedges. I say that to say I agree with "eletronpirate" What little I have learned about my Axe, and I have a long way to go, has greatly helped my sound. I have my sig. chain dialed in. Now I just experiment with some patches and have fun.
 
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