Going from FRFR to poweramp/cab

[Danny Danzi]

I'll never understand having Cab Modeling = ON and running through a live cab. Nails on a chalkboard to me. The 3-dimensional experience of playing with a live cab just disappears.

I played a showed like this once accidentally and my tone was so muddy and felt strange through the whole show. Unfortunately I realized this after the show and died a little inside. I mean, I get that it depends on what IR is being used and what cab I'm using and it could sound less muddy, but it feels like sacrilege to me. It's analogous to playing a isolated, master track recording of Stevie Ray Vaughn's guitar and playing it through my 4x12 Marshall and saying, "Yes, this is fine. This is how it's meant to be heard." Just no.

Totally agree with you! But you said the two key things, it depends on the cab and the IR. Most IR's to me are either loaded with unrealistic low end or harsh highs. So you're tweaking to compensate no matter what. Try tweaking something in full using ON and see how you fair. That's one thing with the modeling world, nothing sounds right when you make a change and have it set up and tweaked for something else.

 

[flyingrhoads]

When you say they are set up for FRFR, do you mean that you make them on studio monitors? It's important to make the patches from scratch at high volume. Also it sounds like the IR be messing up the patch creation, so when it is disabled and played through the real cab, the tone changes too much.

Another tip is to use a low pass filter around 6k-10k hz depending on how much fizz you are getting. That might be the only problem/solution actually so definitely try it.

Unless it's a tricky amp like a mesa (USA) I would try just loading an amp block at mostly default settings and a filter block with low pass at 8k. If that sounds bad then it probably isn't your patch and something else is wrong.

Not quite, what I meant was that I bought a preset pack to have many varieties of amp tones already dialed in, and they were set up using CLR's at stage volume. By switching to a power amp and cab setup, (SD PS700 and misc cabs), it would sound like fizzy doodoo regardless of having the cab modeling turned on or off.

BUT, all is resolved now. I ended up nabbing a CLR, and did a few minor tweaks to the Output1 GEQ, and it sounds phenomenal!!!! Now I just gotta sell the PS700... LOL

 

[Eric Dirck]

Old thread but I was fishing around for info so I thought I'd add to it - - - it's important to note that although it's typical to disable the power amp modeling when running thru most solid state amps, this is not the rule and only really applies to full range ss amps (e.g. PA amps).

I'm running through a Rocktron Mainline 300 which emulates a tube power amp (quite well!), so I disable the modeling. I also have a solid state Marshall 8008 power amp - - it has the option of running "flat" or with "valvestate" tube emulation. The difference on the Marshall is pretty subtle, and there are no tone adjustments on it. The Rocktron has a very tube-like response and sounds awesome with amp modeling disabled...and it has tone-shaping capabilities (reso and presence) for further tweaking to suit your real-life cabinet.

 

[johnnyspys]

Only turn off power amp modeling if using a tube amp... solid state, leave it on. Cab sims off with a guitar cab, but no rule says you can’t leave it on.

Kind of a late response but just in case someone comes to this thread, I think the response should be when using a tube amp it depends on the tube amp. The Fryette tube amps (no pressure) are meant to be used with a modeler (and in some cases a small combo amp plugged in to go from 5 watts to 50) so they are pretty neutral and with the power amp modeling off sound thinner. Using the Axe FXIII into the front of an guitar head amp for sure I probably would 99% of the time turn the modeling off. However, when I plugged the Axe FX III into the return of my Friedman Runt 50 bypassing the preamp of the Friedman it sounded better with the modeling on....where as with my Bogner shiva it sounded better with the modeling off.

 

[Brucegregori]

Generally speaking, what changes do you usually do to your patch to go from running FRFR to a poweramp/cab setup to get as close of tone as possible to your FRFR/direct sounds? Usually just tweaking a global EQ on that output?

My patches are all set up for FRFR/direct, but I don't have a FRFR. Instead I'll be using a poweramp and cab, but when I turn off the cab block the tone gets very buzzy and bad.

I sometimes fun to FOH and or FRFR AND a flat poweramp and 212 cab. So I could have all three things going on. But usually it is just two with the power amp and 212 always in the mix. I usually set up my presets to run like a "regular" Axe preset in O1 with everything ON.

If the poweramp I am using - I have a few set ups - is flat like a powerstage or matrix my O2 output is set the same way as above.

If the poweramp I a using is Tube or I going in the return of my Victory - I turn off the poweramp modeling and bypass the cab block (because I would be using the 212). Sometimes it sounds good with the poweramp modeling on and you could leave it...depends.

If I am using a powered speaker and any of the above - same as FOH.

The biggest challenge I have found with trying to leave cab modeling on with a regular cab is it can get muddy when you switch to different presets. FOH/FRFR is going to be consistent. I have found a cab I like and I use it in those situations.

The same with leaving poweramp modeling on if using a tube amp. In the studio it sounds cool but sometimes live it doesn't translate. I try to keep things where they will always sounds the best.

But there are no rules - just reasons....so do what works best.