GLOBALLY Turn OFF Cabinet Modeling for JUST Output 2?

T

Tones2

Experienced
Is there any way to turn globally turn off the Cabinet modeling for just output 2 when copying Output 1 to Output 2? The reason would be having output 1 have the full cabinet modeling to go to front of house and use output 2 as an on stage monitor through a SS power amp and guitar speaker cabinet. I'm trying to do this without having to insert an Output 2 into every preset I'm using as well as having to move the cabinet to the end of the chain in every preset I use.
 
The only way to “turn off” cabinet modeling for just one Output is to tap your signal before the Cab block. That means that you’ll lose any effects blocks that come after the cab. If you don’t want that to happen, you’re going to have to rearrange your presets. And as long as you’re doing that, it’s a simple matter to place an Out2 block right where you want it.
 
Rex said:
The only way to “turn off” cabinet modeling for just one Output is to tap your signal before the Cab block. That means that you’ll lose any effects blocks that come after the cab. If you don’t want that to happen, you’re going to have to rearrange your presets. And as long as you’re doing that, it’s a simple matter to place an Out2 block right where you want it.
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Yes, I know this. This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to AVOID doing, as stated in my initial post. :) Most other models like Kemper allow to to bypass the cabinets independently per output GLOBALLY without having to modify individual presets. It looks like you can only do this globally for ALL outputs in FM3, not per output. Which is annoying as hell.
 
Products which offer this capability do so at the loss of the massive flexibility which our products provide. It's simply not compatible with the Fractal Audio way of doing things. It's like you can choose a tram, which, yes, can go either forwards or backwards and doesn't really need anyone to drive, or you can have the Batmobile, which drives anywhere, flies, goes underwater, etc, but needs you to pay attention at the controls.
 
I wish some “preset consideration” was given to those of us who really like the feel and the thump of using OUT2 into a real power amp and real cabs. It’s intoxicating to have ALL these dream amps, but when you can output them to a real amp and real cabs it’s a whole other world of fun🤘 Problem is that ALL presets have to be re-written to work with OUT2. It would be nice if we could have or buy presets that were actually purpose-built from scratch for OUT2 into a real stereo power amp (like a MESA 2:90) and then out to 2 real cabs...
 
So we are saying there is NO WAY POSSIBLE to even manually do this per preset and have POST CABINET EFFECTS running through both outputs but one with cab on and one with cab off? (other then duplicating the cab all the effects after it a separate row that leads to the Out2 block)? Man that's not good.
 
Tones2 said:
So we are saying there is NO WAY POSSIBLE to even manually do this per preset and have POST CABINET EFFECTS running through both outputs but one with cab on and one with cab off? (other then duplicating the cab all the effects after it a separate row that leads to the Out2 block)? Man that's not good.
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Correct. Same as it ever was ;)

Most effects that would typically be run after the Cab can also be run before the Cab block with no affect on the tone.
 
Tones2 said:
So we are saying there is NO WAY POSSIBLE to even manually do this per preset and have POST CABINET EFFECTS running through both outputs but one with cab on and one with cab off? (other then duplicating the cab all the effects after it a separate row that leads to the Out2 block)? Man that's not good.
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No. Because you’d need the equivalent of 2 copies of every block so the cab sim is in one output but not the other. Just like we can’t remove the guitar completely from a stereo recording, we can’t simply remove the cab signal once it’s mixed in with the other blocks. We need stems to remove a track, same as we need to use separate rows in a preset.

It’s been discussed many times here that putting the cabinet last has no effect on blocks in most situations. Splitting it in the preset is the way to do it.
 
Tones2 said:
So we are saying there is NO WAY POSSIBLE to even manually do this per preset and have POST CABINET EFFECTS running through both outputs but one with cab on and one with cab off? (other then duplicating the cab all the effects after it a separate row that leads to the Out2 block)? Man that's not good.
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You mean...make it so all the effects are pre-cab in real life anyway?
 
Admin M@ said:
It's like you can choose a tram, which, yes, can go either forwards or backwards and doesn't really need anyone to drive, or you can have the Batmobile, which drives anywhere, flies, goes underwater, etc, but needs you to pay attention at the controls.
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That’s a perfect analogy.
 
ToneDriven said:
I wish some “preset consideration” was given to those of us who really like the feel and the thump of using OUT2 into a real power amp and real cabs. It’s intoxicating to have ALL these dream amps, but when you can output them to a real amp and real cabs it’s a whole other world of fun🤘 Problem is that ALL presets have to be re-written to work with OUT2. It would be nice if we could have or buy presets that were actually purpose-built from scratch for OUT2 into a real stereo power amp (like a MESA 2:90) and then out to 2 real cabs...
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You just have to insert the Out 2 block before the Cab block.
 
👍Moving all my cab blocks to the end now so I can have the best of both worlds. Thanks guys!
FWIW, Mark Day’s FM3 Recto preset and Leon’s IIc++ FM3 preset are pretty much plug-and-play into my MESA 2:90 real amp setup (it’s all MESA tone anyway, so of course). All I have to do is add an OUT2 at the end and kill the cab block and it is pretty wicked high gain chugging heaven. I swear it’s like owning a $20k 10U rack of 80’s Rock God gear. It’s humbling because I suck - and f’n awesome all at the same time... The things we dreamt of when we were 16 come to life now🤘
 
On an almost related note, I’m planning on using the FM3 pretty much exclusively through a pair of tube amps.

I can just globally disable power amp and cab modeling, and run an XLR-to-TS from output 1 to the amp FX returns, correct? Or I can somehow mirror out 1 to out 2 and use regular TS cables?
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
So a cab block after reverb and delay wouldn't apply EQ to the delay and reverb tails?
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it will because the tails would run into the cab block if they're in the same row/serial. i'm not sure i understand the question.

Deadpool_25 said:
On an almost related note, I’m planning on using the FM3 pretty much exclusively through a pair of tube amps.

I can just globally disable power amp and cab modeling, and run an XLR-to-TS from output 1 to the amp FX returns, correct? Or I can somehow mirror out 1 to out 2 and use regular TS cables?
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yes for Out 1.

for Out 2, yes you can go to Setup and turn on Copy Out 1 to Out 2 (might be in General?). then whatever runs to Out 1 in a preset will also go to Out 2. you need to turn up the physical Out 2 knob as well. you would still need to set Power amp and Cab modeling off in the Setup menu as well.
 
chris said:
it will because the tails would run into the cab block if they're in the same row/serial. i'm not sure i understand the question.
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You said that putting the cabinet last has no effect on blocks in most situations. This would be one of the situations where it does, though. Right?
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
You said that putting the cabinet last has no effect on blocks in most situations. This would be one of the situations where it does, though. Right?
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I think he’s just saying that putting the cab block after your other post-amp effects is going to sound exactly the same as having the cab block before the effects. So moving the cab block to the end of your chain and taking a tap off for output two right before the cab would avoid duplicating all your effects in the output two line but will still sound equivalent.
 
Karl Houseknecht said:
You said that putting the cabinet last has no effect on blocks in most situations. This would be one of the situations where it does, though. Right?
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the statement was in reference to continuing through to Out 1. there are several situations and discussions happening in the thread.

in a simple setup, if i put cab then delay and verb, the result at Out 1 would be the same compared to delay then verb then cab last.

if you are speaking about splitting the rows and putting Out 2 on a separate row without the Cab block, then yes, anything that the Cab block does will not be present at Out 2. i was not saying it would be the same.

so yes, if you use the Cab block to EQ your tone specifically, removing the Cab block from Out 2 means Out 2 wouldn't have that EQ adjustment. however, would you still need it? Most EQ'ing in a Cab block happens because of the cabs chosen, adding mostly bass to the tone compared to no Cab block. so this may not be an issue afterall.
 
When using linear time invariant (LTI) effects the order doesn't matter as it would produce the same exact result.
LTI effects are delays, reverbs, enhancer, eqs and filters.
Modulation effects (flanger, phaser, chorus, etc.) are not 100% LTI but pretty close in most cases so you probably wouldn't hear a difference.

Basically the order matters only for anything that involves distortion, compression, pitch shifting and heavy modulation.
 
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