Global Blocks..either always ON or always OFF in a preset.

[kgofswg]

So from reading the forum, I realized that using Axe-Edit is useless when trying to create/store global blocks. I've been doing it with great success on the FXII and I've made one for a volume block (for solo level boost). All of my solo presets have the VOL block ON and all my non solo presets have the block off, but after doing the whole global block thing, they are either all OFF in the preset or all ON (depending on what the last preset I stored). Now, ultimately it doesn't matter because my CAE switcher has everything stored and tells the FXII what to turn on and off for each preset, but I just don't know why it does this. I'd like to pull up a preset and see what should and shouldn't be on, regardless if my foot controller is connected or not.

Using the FXII as an FX processor in my amp loop, this pic shows a solo preset that has the VOL off when it should be on. If I turn it on and save it, then all the other global VOL blocks will now be ON in EVERY preset. Odd.

 

[ZenRigs Man]

Hey mate, I had the same confusion when I first played with the global blocks. I created a block for the pitch shifter and then used it in all my presets, but the state of the block in EVERY preset is either on or off - I can't have it off in some presets and on in others and whatever the last saved state of the block is in any preset, it ripples through to all presets that use this global block.

I'm guessing that's just the way it works, but it seems odd. I'll post it as a wishlist item and see what the response is!
Sukh

 

[yek]

The state of a global block is, eh global.
So if global block #1 is set to On in preset X and saved as such, it will be On in all presets which contain the same global block.

This is the reason I have two versions of global block: #1 is Off, #2 is On.

Cliff has stated he considered changing this behavior but that hasn't been implemented yet.

 

[GM Arts]

I'm using global blocks ok where X is selected in some patches and Y is selected in others. I don't know if this is a bug, but if so, I don't want it "fixed" :razz

 

[Tonemaster]

The state of a global block is, eh global.
So if global block #1 is set to On in preset X and saved as such, it will be On in all presets which contain the same global block.

This is the reason I have two versions of global block: #1 is Off, #2 is On.

Cliff has stated he considered changing this behavior but that hasn't been implemented yet.

This needs to change. You shouldn't have to duplicate a global to set it's state. That should be by preset. State is one param that should not be global. IMO

 

[Japster]

+1 on sorting globals out, the idea of them is great but in practice they can be a nightmare to work with.

Global Global on/off is a good idea too

 

[chris]

once the change is made, they should rename them to "almost global" blocks.

 

[s0c9]

This needs to change. You shouldn't have to duplicate a global to set it's state. That should be by preset. State is one param that should not be global. IMO

It's called a "global" block because it is exactly that. It performs as designed, which means that state - along with all other parameters - is saved to that single block. Anywhere that block is referenced in a preset, the contents of that block are used. Since state (on/off) is a block parameter, that state will be reflected in each preset. If it's saved as OFF, it will be OFF in every preset where used. That's the whole purpose of a *global block" and not too tough a concept to grasp.

From a programming perspective this a common object model approach known as inheritance. You have a single instance of an object [global block] that contains parameters that can be set by a user. That object can then be embedded in or referenced by another object [a preset]. The preset gets a copy of the stored global block. In some programming models you may change the contents of that that block, but only while that preset is *active*. If you switch to another preset and back, those changes are lost and that global block is re-initialized back to the stored *global* values. However, if you change any parameters of that single stored *global block*, every referencing preset inherits the SAME CHANGE whenever a referencing preset is selected. That is how inheritance works and it follows a standard OO programming model. Very common.

To be able to have a Global Block that is ON in one Preset and OFF in another, requires that parameter to be different in the same object. That is not possible in a single object [block] without storing that value a 2nd time (which is a whole other issue, because it then becomes a different parameter) or requires the use of a 2nd Global block. That is/was Yek's work-around.

Another work-around might be to program the MFC to turn on the IA for those presets that needed VOL boost ON ?

 

[Stringer76]

On the flipside, one area where I have found this behavior very useful is when leveling presets. I like to balance all of my patches before solo boosts so I only have to do the process once (I don't have to have a separate balancing process for my solo presets). I use a global graphic EQ block for my solo boosts, and when leveling presets I just go to one of my solo presets, set the global graphic EQ to bypass and save the patch. Then I am able to level balance all of my patches easily and I know that when I turn my global graphic EQ in one of my solo presets back on and save, I have a consistent solo level for all of my solo presets. It's a very quick process this way.

 

[GM Arts]

@s0c9

XY selection is already being stored at the patch level (see my post further above), so I don't see why on/off can't do the same.

OTOH, I wish controller assignement setings could be stored with a global block

 

[kgofswg]

That's the problem. The on/off state should have no bearing on the overall global parameters of the block. If you were looking at a real distortion pedal and wanted to tell someone the settings you were using for a particular gig, in a million years would you say, "I have my Klon drive at 12 o'clock, treble at 9 o'clock, volume at 1 o'clock, and the pedal turned ON"? I know this is virtual and the possibilities are endless over one set tone for any block, but the approach should still be relatively the same. Switching systems have IA/DA of all effects (real or virtual) for use in every preset. For the most part in any touring situation, players typically will want their favorite/best sounds available at all times (flanger, Phaser, Leslie, Chorus, dist pedals, etc). Of course there are exceptions when it comes to delay times, or when you want a thicker chorus, or whatever, but unless you're the Edge, real world players who tour aren't going to deviate from the basic "best of" parameters of each FX/block. And the times when there is a deviation, that's when you just unlink the block and have the variation for that specific preset. With that said, if I want to fine tune my "best of" FX blocks, then I want all of the parameters to change in all my presets WITHOUT changing their on/off state. To say that your favorite flanger block will always have to either be ON or OFF for all presets makes no sense at all. Turning an FX on or off isn't an "FX parameter".

Like I mentioned before, with IA/DA stored in the controller's preset (FAS, CAE, or whatever), it's irrelevant if the blocks are on or off in the FXII preset because the controller sets the on/off state of all FX when engaging a preset.

Also, if you were to take the FXII from a live situation to a recording situation, you now have to also use the controller so it can dictate what's actually on or off for all global blocks in the preset you want to track with.

Also, Also, the two block versions is a pain in the a$$ because now you have to remember to make the change twice when it should only be made once.

EDIT: My friend just let me borrow his FAS MFC pedal, so I haven't messed with it yet. I don't know if it will do the same thing as my CAE-RST pedal where it stores what IA/DA should be on/off independent of the FXII.

 

[s0c9]

@s0c9XY selection is already being stored at the patch level (see my post further above), so I don't see why on/off can't do the same.

You appear to be having some challenges in understanding "global" blocks. X/Y parameters are stored in the AMP block of the PRESET, per preset. If you have a *global* amp block, you should not get X in one preset and Y in another. That's not how a linked "global" is supposed to work. If you loaded a global block without linking it, then yes, one could be X and the other set to Y, but then its not really global any longer.
Please clarify which block you are talking about... preset or global.

 

[sean.e]

Even with global blocks some state IS per preset: modifier/controller settings.

 

[GM Arts]

You appear to be having some challenges in understanding "global" blocks. X/Y parameters are stored in the AMP block of the PRESET, per preset. If you have a *global* amp block, you should not get X in one preset and Y in another. That's not how a linked "global" is supposed to work. If you loaded a global block without linking it, then yes, one could be X and the other set to Y, but then its not really global any longer.
Please clarify which block you are talking about... preset or global.

No challenges, and please don't presume.

I have many of my blocks linked globally, used in many patches. An example: Pitch 1 is recalled from Pitch 1 Global slot 1 in my first 8 patches. In some patches I've saved this block with X active, in others Y is active. These patches recall that way - the X/Y setting is recalled at the patch level, the other block settings are recalled (and changes are saved) globally.

Try it for yourself and let us know what you find. This is a good thing, and it's what folks here would like to see with the on/off setting as well.

 

[Rex]

An example: Pitch 1 is recalled from Pitch 1 Global slot 1 in my first 8 patches. In some patches I've saved this block with X active, in others Y is active. These patches recall that way - the X/Y setting is recalled at the patch level, the other block settings are recalled (and changes are saved) globally.

This.

It may not be how inheritance works, but code can be written to decide which parameters to inherit, and which to store on a per-preset basis.