Giving fractal another shot

R

rich2k4

Inspired
This is a continuation of the following thread, which many thought was a troll post, until I clarified that I was legit : https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...t-decent-tones-what-was-i-doing-wrong.179629/

So I was able to mess with my FM3 that I bought again. This time I'm going guitar into FM3, and into the Scarlett 6i6 via SPDIF. I cranked OUT1 all the way full. this gives me -12 db on my DAW/Interface meter when leveling presets to hit around 0DB using the preset leveling tool. I think this is how it's ideally meant to be run, at Unity volume based on a video by Austin Buddy that I watched. I also increased my interface master volume more than normal, past noon.

It basically is a volume issue. Because when I do this it sounds much better and the tone comes alive more.

I normally keep my interface master volume knob at around 10-11 o clock because all other sounds coming out of the computer, Youtube, etc are plenty loud at that level.

When I view it in my interface mixer window, Youtube for example is hitting consistently at around -3db which explains why I'd need to keep the volume knob lower for that, where as Axe FX hits -12db if leveled properly using the tool.

I guess this means I'll need to use the interface mixer as intended and properly mix the sounds if I want to jam to youtube tracks.

When I lower the interface level down to a volume that I consider to be a respectful late night volume, the tones start to sound dead as I can hear my strings over the sound. Which means I may have to become a headphone user.

So yeah, all these years basically not understanding proper gain staging and volume.
 
Can you increase the channels the FM3 is using to match the computer levels? That’s what a mixer-function is meant to do. It doesn’t have to stay at -12 dB if you’re mixing it with something else.
 
chris said:
Can you increase the channels the FM3 is using to match the computer levels? That’s what a mixer-function is meant to do. It doesn’t have to stay at -12 dB if you’re mixing it with something else.
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I guess so. Increasing the interface mixer fader to full says it's about 6 DB of extra gain if you max it out.
 
I don't have an FM3, rather a Axe III, but this should be the same (according to the wiki). In the Setup menu, do you have Output 1's Output Level set to +4? It defaults to -10db. I'm not sure if SPDIF bypasses that or not. Also, have you tried bypassing your Scarlett interface and just using your FM3 as your interface?
Anyhow, I hope that this time you can get the results you are looking for. I know there is a steep learning curve. But great tones and a lot of inspiration are in there.
 
Really happy you got it sorted out! I too thought it was a troll post, but I'm glad you didn't give up, stuck through it and got a great result! :)

The axe fx and its siblings are some of the best sounding pieces of gear on the planet, and with thousands of thrilled users and almost infinite possibilities and tweakability, and usually if you can't get what you're looking for, 99% of the time it's mostly user error or just not taking the time to understand it all

Have great fun with it, and let us know how it goes! Hope you finally see or hear what all the fuss is about! 😉

Happy New Year!
 
rich2k4 said:
cranked OUT1 all the way full. this gives me -12 db on my DAW/Interface meter
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On Ax3 (I assume FM3 would be the same) the physical output knob on Axefx will have no effect on volume going thru SPDIF out. Using the levelling tool to 0 and -12 in the DAW as you have done is perfect.

rich2k4 said:
It basically is a volume issue.
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With Axe set as above, and Interface master output volume set to 0, interface physical external output volume control set to full, and interface Axefx channel strip output volume set to zero, you should be getting a good healthy volume in the room IF the actual studio monitor volume knobs on the back of each monitor are turned up to 0 (that would be with the knob 1/2 way on my Yamaha HS8s which would be quite loud in this config w these settings (I turn interface master volume down from here to get the lower volume I want with additional volume on tap via the interface's master slider)).

rich2k4 said:
Youtube for example is hitting consistently at around -3db which explains why I'd need to keep the volume knob lower for that, where as Axe FX hits -12db if leveled properly using the tool.
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Putting the Axefx and Youtube on different channels in the interface will let you set a relative youtube volume that would stay the same regardless of master volume which you could turn up/down affecting both as needed.

rich2k4 said:
When I lower the interface level down to a volume that I consider to be a respectful late night volume, the tones start to sound dead as I can hear my strings over the sound. Which means I may have to become a headphone user.
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Won't matter which modeller you'd choose - this would be a consideration in addition to our old friend fletcher munson and increasing / decreasing room reflections...
 
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Glad you jumped back in Rich. The FM3 (and all Fractal products) are amazing.

Just curious - why not just use your FM3 as your interface? (and avoid any gain staging issues with the Scarlett)
 
BBN said:
Glad you jumped back in Rich. The FM3 (and all Fractal products) are amazing.

Just curious - why not just use your FM3 as your interface? (and avoid any gain staging issues with the Scarlett)
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I use the pc a lot and don't want to have the FM3 running constantly if I just want to listen to music or watch youtube/movies.
 
I also do this and have a Behringer UMC404HD and the FM3 attached to Computer.
Depeding on use I switch on the FM3 and switch the Audio device in application to FM3 or back to UMC.
 
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Sounds pretty normal to me. I also have a Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen and when using my DAW or FM3 I have to turn the monitor volume much much higher.

Most consumer content is mastered to output at near 0 dB and often heavily compressed too so that's why YT videos, movies, video games etc will be much louder than what you would get in a recording environment where having more headroom would be useful.

What you could do is simply lower the main output level from your computer to get a better balance between consumer content and FM3 so you require less adjustments for volume.

For low volume use it's best to go for headphones.
 
rich2k4 said:
So yeah, all these years basically not understanding proper gain staging and volume.
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Studio and music-dork home-audio setups can get convoluted to do things like this right.

The simplest solution might be too simple to have considered....what happens if you turn the computer volume down with the media keys or the control in the system bar?

It depends on some specifics of your setup. On OS X, I believe that the system volume control gets disabled with the Scarletts (and most good audio interfaces). On windows, it's just another digital volume control, and I think it would completely fix the problem if you're using direct monitoring for your FM3 on S/PDIF. So, you'd use the system volume control to set the balance and the knob on the scarlett to set the overall level.

For youtube, specifically, it has another volume control you can use. And I believe it responds to up and down arrows after you've clicked on the video at least once.

Personally...I always listen through a DAW. The additional latency doesn't bother me. And, it gives a lot more control. But, that's getting into convoluted territory, especially on Windows (because it can't send system audio via ASIO, so you end up doing dumb things like running a digital output straight back into an input just so you can treat it the same as everything else).

A lot of people use small mixers for this kind of thing (and think I'm crazy for just monitoring through a DAW).
 
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