Gigging Cover FRFR Guys???

[steadystate]

In my experience no one will notice. Normal people are not paying attention to guitar tones., And as has been said, a constantly shifting guitar tone that shifts throughout the mix can actually be jarring.

The power of recognition matters.

The last part of the above quote seems at odds with the first. I regularly get comments from audience members after a show complimenting the accuracy of the guitar tones for every song. It is a frequent occurrence. If the accuracy is there, some people will most definitely notice and let you know in a very enthusiastic manner. I've had people come up to me and cite song after song of the evening's setlist, relaying how much the guitar sounded like the one on the record in each instance and how much it enhanced their enjoyment of the show.

True, the majority will not notice the finer details. But I don't put in the effort for them. I put in the effort for myself and for those who can appreciate it. Why work toward the lowest common denominator, i.e. "normal people"? Normal people tend to like McDonald's and reality television. It would be a shame if no restaurants or producers ever aimed for higher standards.

 

[Moke]

The last part of the above quote seems at odds with the first. I regularly get comments from audience members after a show complimenting the accuracy of the guitar tones for every song. It is a frequent occurrence. If the accuracy is there, some people will most definitely notice and let you know in a very enthusiastic manner. I've had people come up to me and cite song after song of the evening's setlist, relaying how much the guitar sounded like the one on the record in each instance and how much it enhanced their enjoyment of the show.

True, the majority will not notice the finer details. But I don't put in the effort for them. I put in the effort for myself and for those who can appreciate it. Why work toward the lowest common denominator, i.e. "normal people"? Normal people tend to like McDonald's and reality television. It would be a shame if no restaurants or producers ever aimed for higher standards.

Well (steady) stated.

Yeah, the "No one will notice" comments are what I have issue with. Is that how you treat your day-job too?

#1 is the performance, but nailing the tones is quite challenging and rewarding too.

It's one of the things that my band is recognized for. And @steadystate's for sure!!

 

[steadystate]

Well (steady) stated.

Yeah, the "No one will notice" comments are what I have issue with. Is that how you treat your day-job too?

That's pretty much how I treated mine

 

[Keith White]

Well (steady) stated.

Yeah, the "No one will notice" comments are what I have issue with. Is that how you treat your day-job too?

#1 is the performance, but nailing the tones is quite challenging and rewarding too.

It's one of the things that my band is recognized for. And @steadystate's for sure!!

I played in the band Rockbox on Bourbon Street and our band was the band responsible for changing the street from jazz and blues to nearly all rock format. Our band payed attention to every little detail to every song, harmonies note instrumentation and tones. I wrote an individual tone for nearly every song to match that particular song including all effects. It made a huge difference and it showed in that our club would be packed nearly every night while the others would have much smaller crowds. Everyone has their ideas about playing in cover bands but to me since that was my job and my only job I wanted to sound like and play like and be each guitarist I was covering including their nuisances. My saying is the crowd won't know if you play it wrong but they definitely know if you play it right. It also makes the paycheck and tips better!

 

[solo-act]

What my degree in music therapy (lots of biology & psychology with music sprinkled in) taught me is that it ABSOLUTELY MATTERS how close you get to a song that means a lot to someone. The number of physiological and emotional things that happen when a signature guitar tone (& the expression) is nailed is orders of magnitude greater than what happens when that tone isn't nailed. Obscure, generic background part of a song? not so much. Opening riff to "Back in Black" "Brown Sugar" etc., or the heart-bending solo? very, very much.

Audiences listen with eyes and ears, but mostly emotion/memory. If you nail the tone & song & attitude/expression in it, you trigger that deep emotion/memory "well" inside the person and all the physiology linked to it. If you don't nail it, you either don't access that well, or you simply skim the surface and therefore your tone won't matter that much.

Many musicians don't know this or understand it, and many don't bother to nail tones & expression on covers because they think it isn't really that critical. It is, absolutely.

 

[Eric T Amble]

Myself, I used to spend my spare time combing the internet for details about the record’s guitar, amp, mic, routing stuff, etc. Then each song would have a preset with that exact album setup, with scenes for “verse”, “chorus”, “solo”, etc.
But then, in addition to the sound guy getting annoyed that he had to ride my EQ all night, some of the presets just didn’t feel good—and they fed my growing “tone match perfectionist” neuroses with each new firmware update.
So I’m actually moving toward “Swiss Army Knives” with a couple of simplified amp/cab combos that I will really like, and that will save me from having to worry about all the different setups... so that my head stays in the show and I can concentrate more on having fun. And cover band fans around where I live? They do listen with both their eyes and ears, but they mainly listen with their fun!
That, and pelvic thrusts and knee slides and an “Ace Frehley face” here and there are easier with guitar sounds that you’re not endlessly fighting with in a losing battle for perfection... my 2¢

 

[Tom Morris]

Update: Yesterday I was able to set up PA and play with the songs with my amp and speakers. Some songs a bit thin other’s too fat and some just needed some deeper amp tweaking. I was trying to stay with a set 5-6 cabinet IR’s but that just wasn’t working, a few songs were just begging for an oversized Mesa Recto. Overall a pretty wide spectrum of tonal chaos but now its just a matter of minor level tweaks and maybe some EQ here and there with the full band.

Now I can spend some needed time working on other project’s like rearranging presets in to the order they are played (band always plays the same show). I use BandHelper on an iPad to see the list and easily select my starting patch for now but having them in order would be the way to go. Plus with BandHelper you can add a note for other stuff as well as song lyrics. Need to finish my cheat sheet of what expression pedal does what per song.

Thanks to those who replied to the tread. Your input was insightful and at times inspiring.

 

[Tom Morris]

The "fun" will start when an update wrecks all of your patches you spent months creating. It's fun though, could be doing worse things with your time no?

Ha ha funny you should mention that. Did the 9.0.3 update Friday. The only issue I ran into was one preset had two amps on it and one was on when it should have been off. Other than that pretty smooth update. Well aside from the fact that I didnt disconnect the MFC-101 and walked away during the update. Came back an hour later powered down then back on and didnt wait the 5 seconds I guess. It looked as tho the update installed but Axe Edit wouldn't see the Axe FX. User stupidity, problem solved. LOL

 

[jlynnb1]

I've never had an update wreck anything...not even close. you've gotta be doing some deep editing for it to wreck preset.

 

[BBN]

The last part of the above quote seems at odds with the first. I regularly get comments from audience members after a show complimenting the accuracy of the guitar tones for every song. It is a frequent occurrence. If the accuracy is there, some people will most definitely notice and let you know in a very enthusiastic manner. I've had people come up to me and cite song after song of the evening's setlist, relaying how much the guitar sounded like the one on the record in each instance and how much it enhanced their enjoyment of the show.

True, the majority will not notice the finer details. But I don't put in the effort for them. I put in the effort for myself and for those who can appreciate it. Why work toward the lowest common denominator, i.e. "normal people"? Normal people tend to like McDonald's and reality television. It would be a shame if no restaurants or producers ever aimed for higher standards.

I'm all for - if it works for you, then awesome, keep doing it.
Different gigs require different approaches.
Some cover gigs - maybe the guitar tone accuracy counts. Some, it definitely does not.

But let's keep some perspective here. Many of the people on this board have been gigging in cover bands for 20+ years.
I'm sure the majority of us did it in the earlier years with ONE AMP.
I can tell you that one of most popular all time cover bands out of New England, and are noted as just the most crushing musicians and nailing every song....have used the same one tube power amp for the entire duration of their career (even today).
Relatively speaking, the ability to recreate a wide variety of tones so close to the original (via the Axe) has not been around that long. But somehow, bands have been complimented for years about how great they covered a song.

So if it works for you, and you enjoy recreating those tones....by all means go for it.
But is it a requirement to be considered an amazing cover band?...no.

 

[spv]

The good news here is that you can start pretty simple and evolve over time by adding complexity where you want it. In early days with a new group, to me the most important thing to get done is get sounds into a mix that works live, and as many have pointed out, you can do that with a few core amps and basic set ups...I would probably configure an effects chain and then create a handful of presets that cover the basic amp types you need (e.g., some flavor each of Marshall, Fender, Bogner) with the appropriate cabinets.

In my cover band, I have evolved in the past few years from "5 basic sounds" to a hybrid where I use basic sounds for straightforward stuff and more song-specific patches where there are parts that have super distinct or multiple tones (e.g., to cover a song like Owner of a Lonely Heart where the intro is distinctive and you need a harmonizer to get the solo to sound right), or where it's helpful to have either multiple scenes or expression pedals to manage the sounds. The added complexity is worth it to me -- I get lots of comments about the realism of the tones and the songs we do.

But the cool part is that the Axe can create excellent tone either way! Good luck!

 

[TG3K]

...Now I can spend some needed time working on other project’s like rearranging presets in to the order they are played (band always plays the same show)...

You might want to look into the Songs and Set List features available within the MFC. I use MFC-Edit to control both, and no longer have to worry about having my presets in any specific order. I just call up the correct set, then use the Up and Down footswitches on the MFC to go from one song to the next. Our typical gigs are three sets, and I have three shows worth of set lists stored. My 10th "set list" contains all of our songs in alphabetical order. If we decide to diverge from one of our standard set lists, I'll just pull up the Alpha list and I can tap my way to whatever song we decide to to in just a few seconds.

 

[steadystate]

What my degree in music therapy (lots of biology & psychology with music sprinkled in) taught me is that it ABSOLUTELY MATTERS how close you get to a song that means a lot to someone. The number of physiological and emotional things that happen when a signature guitar tone (& the expression) is nailed is orders of magnitude greater than what happens when that tone isn't nailed. Obscure, generic background part of a song? not so much. Opening riff to "Back in Black" "Brown Sugar" etc., or the heart-bending solo? very, very much.

Audiences listen with eyes and ears, but mostly emotion/memory. If you nail the tone & song & attitude/expression in it, you trigger that deep emotion/memory "well" inside the person and all the physiology linked to it. If you don't nail it, you either don't access that well, or you simply skim the surface and therefore your tone won't matter that much.

Many musicians don't know this or understand it, and many don't bother to nail tones & expression on covers because they think it isn't really that critical. It is, absolutely.

THIS. This is the best answer I've yet seen. I've had couples, women, and even men come up to me after a show almost in tears, gushing about how all of their fondest memories came flooding back to them. They tell us that we have no idea how much the show meant to them and hold their hands over their hearts while they do, always citing how the details were what they appreciated most. I also agree that, if no one is noticing, it is because you haven't provided adequate stimuli. You don't have to be 100% (we certainly aren't). But the closer you are, the more emotional triggers you will activate.

This phenomenon is probably unique to older music and older fans, as the brain requires time to develop these circuits. The ties between memory, emotion, and detail are obvious. The details are the vehicle, the emotional response is the payload. The members of the audience who don't notice are not the ones for which I sweat the details. They are the ones who I don't notice.

 

[BBN]

Audiences listen with eyes and ears, but mostly emotion/memory. If you nail the tone & song & attitude/expression in it, you trigger that deep emotion/memory "well" inside the person and all the physiology linked to it. If you don't nail it, you either don't access that well, or you simply skim the surface and therefore your tone won't matter that much.

This is interesting, and I agree with it. You are triggering the emotion/memory. The question is - how close do you have to be, to trigger it?
That is something that can't be quantified (does it have to be 75% as close, 85%?...who knows).
So while you may need 45 presets to get that effect, others may be able to do it with 3.

The band I mentioned earlier in the thread, which is worshiped in my area for exactly what you mentioned. Every person that sees them will say they nail every cover, perfectly (and they do)....and they do it with one tube amp.

I will also argue that it's the singer that is bringing the fan 90% of the way to that trigger. (different discussion though)

My vocal coach (who coaches mostly rock stars, and has been on a few VH1 specials discussing great singers...but still has a few scrubs students like me) has coached me on this point many times.
If I'm trying to nail something like a buckcherry scratchy screaming chorus...he will coach me into NOT doing it as close to the record as I think it needs to be. His point is that if I am close enough, the listener's brain takes over and hears it the way it is on the album (based of that memory being triggered). I always have a hard time letting go of what I think it needs to be. But when I try it his way, it works just as well.

But another point that is made above....it really depends on who your audience is.
Older fans that are really into music...they may notice more.
The target audience for my cover band is 21-35 year drunk woman. And let me tell you, they have ZERO concern about how close the tone is to the original. 90% of them don't even know the names of the bands or songs.

"can you play Hootie?"
...sure, which song?
"oh, I don't know what it's called"
....(sigh)

Yes, the kids now a days request Hootie...non stop!

 

[steadystate]

But let's keep some perspective here. Many of the people on this board have been gigging in cover bands for 20+ years.
I'm sure the majority of us did it in the earlier years with ONE AMP.

I used a single Marshall JCM800 in college to cover every band. I did my best using a large pedalboard and the Marshall's FX loop to recreate tones. I was never happy with that limitation. I did it because I had no alternative. I then went to a 12-space rack full of gear (Mesa Triaxis, Eventide Orville, etc.) to gain more flexibility. It weighted a ton and was unreliable, but I used it anyway because it brought me closer to the tones I was looking for. When the Axe came along, I ditched the rack. I'm always looking for better tools, and to use those tools to the best of my abilities to perform my job to the best of my abilities.

True, you don't need the latest tech to perform the job. To each his own.