Gigging Cover FRFR Guys???

Tom Morris

Power User
Just wondering what your method is for tweaking. Do you select a couple of amp cab combinations that work for you or do you try to dial in every song exact? I recently was asked to replace a guy in a cover band and have been working on this 40+ batch of songs that I need ready in less than a month. My personal practice arrangement is me at home with headphones. Im playing live with a Matrix 1000 and two Xitone cabs. The other guitarist which plays most of the leads uses a Blackstar head into a peavy 4x12 with a few pedals So I’m kind of in a jam as far as making every song match the CD tone. This band as most do their own take on songs with the gear they have. My part will naturally be covering all the FX stuff. We had our first practice this past weekend and my tone and volume was all over the place. It would be great if we could practice 5 days a week but we only have two more before I have to play my first show. An other issue I have is the range of songs from Zeppelin to Godsmack to Three non blondes to Rage against the machine. However lead guitar guy, one tone all night. I’m a stickler for nailing tone and FX hence buying an Axe FX. So I’m wondering what to do to fit in with this band tone wise as far as EQ Amp and Cab mix. Oh and then there is the Enhancer block which is a subject all on its own. End note: I have a small PA and warehouse I can use in between to do some tweaking on volume and overall tone for my Matrix-Xitone setup against the cd version of the songs.

LAWD HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





LIST OF BANDS



AC/DC

Journey

Joan Jet

Billy Idol

Bon Jovi

Bush

Alanis Morissette

The Cult

Janis Joplin

Led Zeppelin

Ozzy

The Cranberries

Heart

P!nk

Rush

4 non blondes

Def Leopard

Poison

Motley Crew

Guns and Roses

Five Finger Death Punch

Metallica

System of A Down

Drowning Pool

Velvet Revolver

Crossfade

KoRN

Evanescence

Tesla

Scorpions

Queens Ryche

Godsmack

Iron Maiden……….
 
The other guitarist which plays most of the leads uses a Blackstar head into a peavy 4x12 with a few pedals

Based upon what the other guitarist is using and the artist selection I would go very simple. In my cover band we cover similar stuff and my self and our other guitarist both use AX8's. 4 patches using scenes which are basically mid gain with clean/acoustic and high gain clean/acoustic. Each patch has a boosted volume on the gain channel and a boosted lead with delay. Covers everything. Volume changes on guitar for nuance to the gain etc.... Biggest tip I can give you as others I am sure will chime in is "get your patches dialed in at gig volume". :)
 
Sticker for the right thing I do a preset for each song and scenes or stuff assigned to one of 3 expression pedals. Kind of figured most keep it simple as they can.
 
Similar situation here. Hundreds of gigs with AxeFx direct. My suggestion is to find a SMALL handfull of core amp/cab tones that cover the bases of the set list. You don't want the soundman chasing your levels and balance all night. Even with careful level matching and a good deal of experience, every time I tried to change dirty tones radically during a set, it just seems to throw something off. No one is gonna be able to tell that you went from a Recto to Bogner model anyways.

Go nuts with Delays and Verbs and whatever..but leave your tone pretty much the same for heavy rhythms.

YMMV, but thats my advice ...at least until you get the rest of the moving parts of the gig sussed.
 
Similar situation here. Hundreds of gigs with AxeFx direct. My suggestion is to find a SMALL handfull of core amp/cab tones that cover the bases of the set list. You don't want the soundman chasing your levels and balance all night. Even with careful level matching and a good deal of experience, every time I tried to change dirty tones radically during a set, it just seems to throw something off. No one is gonna be able to tell that you went from a Recto to Bogner model anyways.

Go nuts with Delays and Verbs and whatever..but leave your tone pretty much the same for heavy rhythms.

YMMV, but thats my advice ...at least until you get the rest of the moving parts of the gig sussed.

Thanks man. That’s pretty much where I’m headed a few core amps and cabinets to stay as close to the other guitarists tone. It’s just a PITA not having the time to mess around with finding those core combos with the other guys gear. I’m good with heavy stuff but cleaner vintage and 80s stuff is going to be my issue. Thanks again Tom
 
I've found the horizontal output meter to be very accurate for distorted tones. I start off setting all my distorted patches as close to zero on it and typically don't have to vary it much after that. I ONLY change the volume level after hearing it in the mix at gig level. My band covers a lot of what you listed and some cleaner songs as well. I use the same patch for many songs, but I still end up using about 15 to 20 presets per 4 hour gig. Most people in the audience probably can't tell that I use that many tones/variations on a theme, but it puts a smile on my face. It's also cool when guitarists come up to see how I'm able to produce the variety of tones from acoustic, to mild overdrive through Godsmack/Metallica tones. I don't try and exactly match the tones though, not for any philosophical reason, but because some recorded tones just don't do it for me.
 
I'm not in a cover band, but if it were me I would just have a couple patches to cover all of the bases. Maybe a marshall sound to cover the classic rock and hair metal songs, then a rectifier or other modern high gain amp to cover metallica and nu metal stuff. Plus whatever clean sounds you need.
 
I agree that finding a few core tones that works for you is absolutely the way to go. I will also say this though that once you’re comfortable with your sound, with the band and how you fit in with the other guitar player, that’s the time to be creative. When you’ve played something a few times and feel you can spice things up a bit and you want to invest the time, create a preset for that song and try to improve things.

I have a few main presets that I use for 90%+ of all the songs we play. An acoustic simulator, a pop song preset based on the AC20, a traditional rock based on the Dirty Shirley and a heavy rock based on the Friedman BE. On top of that I have a handful of song presets that are tuned for specific songs when I need specific effects for something, like She Sells Sanctuary with that delay intro, Stereophonics Dakota with an effects driven intro, Rebel Yell with the Raygun effect and so on. Works really well for me and it’s a lot of fun.
 
One thing I learned is matching the album tones closely usually doesn't work for a live mix. I tone matched a song and was really excited that I nailed the tone and then it was absolute crap at practice.

Btw, any band the covers maiden live is awesome
 
Similar situation here. Hundreds of gigs with AxeFx direct. My suggestion is to find a SMALL handfull of core amp/cab tones that cover the bases of the set list. You don't want the soundman chasing your levels and balance all night. Even with careful level matching and a good deal of experience, every time I tried to change dirty tones radically during a set, it just seems to throw something off. No one is gonna be able to tell that you went from a Recto to Bogner model anyways.

Go nuts with Delays and Verbs and whatever..but leave your tone pretty much the same for heavy rhythms.

YMMV, but thats my advice ...at least until you get the rest of the moving parts of the gig sussed.

I second this notion.

I have 5 core amp sounds from Clean to mega distortion. They way I accomplish it is only with 3 amps and 2 cabs. This gives me 5 options, but keeps them VERY similar due to using minimal amps and more importantly IMO, only 2 cabs.
 
Way to much work to try to tackle every song. You will drive yourself mad. Clean, Marshall sound, Vox Sound, Mesa Sound, Lead. Will cover anything you come across. YMMV. IMHO.
 
I dial to sound the same as the original song, dedicate a patch to that song, and practice with the original song to make sure my rhythm and lead levels are where they need to be. Then I run songs randomly and level the patches as I go so nothing is too quiet or too loud.

It's not rocket science; it just requires a good ear, attention to detail, some work ethic and being a little anal. Even then, I dedicate two switches on my midi footswitch so I can do final patch-to-patch leveling as needed by bumping a patch up or down 1db during the gig.

I recommend the above and then do semi-final patch2patch leveling during band rehearsal. If done right, you'll be 85% there by rehearsal, 95% by the gig, and then go have fun and do a bit of final leveling during the gig.

FYI, a couple other tools I use is a visual volume pedal that lets me put volume in the same place every time. Along with that, my midi footswitch actually displays the CC value for the volume pedal when I move it, so I can return volume pedal to exactly the same place if I want. Not required, but helps in process of consistent patch-to-patch volume.
 
Agree with everyone else. Plus you don't want to be stressed about all these different presets sounding right at the gig. If your 3ish presets have a problem its only 3 presets to fix at the gig. You'll have more fun if you know the songs well and have a few solid core tones to make the gig fun. I've done the opposite and everytime I overcomplicate my presets for a gig its much more stressful and lends itself to mistakes. Good luck!
 
I agree that finding a few core tones that works for you is absolutely the way to go. I will also say this though that once you’re comfortable with your sound, with the band and how you fit in with the other guitar player, that’s the time to be creative. When you’ve played something a few times and feel you can spice things up a bit and you want to invest the time, create a preset for that song and try to improve things.

I have a few main presets that I use for 90%+ of all the songs we play. An acoustic simulator, a pop song preset based on the AC20, a traditional rock based on the Dirty Shirley and a heavy rock based on the Friedman BE. On top of that I have a handful of song presets that are tuned for specific songs when I need specific effects for something, like She Sells Sanctuary with that delay intro, Stereophonics Dakota with an effects driven intro, Rebel Yell with the Raygun effect and so on. Works really well for me and it’s a lot of fun.

Thanks Man. Any suggestions on that ray gun effect I was thinking maybe a synth into pitch shifter into a sequencer controlled by expression pedal? Ahhhh the hours I can waste. Then again I may just do some cut and paste for a sample.
 
Way to much work to try to tackle every song. You will drive yourself mad. Clean, Marshall sound, Vox Sound, Mesa Sound, Lead. Will cover anything you come across. YMMV. IMHO.

I’m getting pretty proficient with dialing stuff in. Some stuff is just like “what in the holly hell did they do there” takes a bit longer. I have already dialed everything in for all the songs. pretty spot on I might add. Credit where credit is due……. I have used a “few” not many presets from the exchange. Now I get to go and re tweak everything! Whole reason for me buying an Axe FX was to have all the tools you could ever need in one box.
 
Forum member @Sleestak Has one of his bands doing David Bowie covers… I think he has to replicate seven different guitarist such as Robert Fripp, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Adrian Belew and David Torn, etc.

You should PM him if he is available, and ask him how he did it. I believe he used to use two amp solutions and nails the recorded tone of each individual artist. It is a ton of work but he did it. Plus I think recently he may have migrated over to the AX8.

BTW, he nails it. Truly a terrific performance.

Lastly, I’m not saying you need to do this… Just a pointer to someone who was very successful at it.
 
I dial to sound the same as the original song, dedicate a patch to that song, and practice with the original song to make sure my rhythm and lead levels are where they need to be. Then I run songs randomly and level the patches as I go so nothing is too quiet or too loud.

It's not rocket science; it just requires a good ear, attention to detail, some work ethic and being a little anal. Even then, I dedicate two switches on my midi footswitch so I can do final patch-to-patch leveling as needed by bumping a patch up or down 1db during the gig.

I recommend the above and then do semi-final patch2patch leveling during band rehearsal. If done right, you'll be 85% there by rehearsal, 95% by the gig, and then go have fun and do a bit of final leveling during the gig.

FYI, a couple other tools I use is a visual volume pedal that lets me put volume in the same place every time. Along with that, my midi footswitch actually displays the CC value for the volume pedal when I move it, so I can return volume pedal to exactly the same place if I want. Not required, but helps in process of consistent patch-to-patch volume.

What the heck volume does that control? I know its controller 35-36, does that bypass the output volume knobs on the front of the unit? I dont see any volume change anywhere like the amp block/ output of the chain, I/O meter altho it does change volume somewhere. I built a volume Up/Down pedal and set it up when I first got the rig a year ago but at the time it was only changing output 1. I have since realized to set output2 to echo output1.
 
I play in a covers band, many of the same songs you have, same advice as many have put here. One trick I learned early is setup a preset, dial in your amp, clean, crunch lead etc. Then recycle it, just change the cab, it can make a huge difference and allows you to cover a wide range of sounds by changing only one component. Also of course, dial inl at gig volume, or you will suffer.
 
I've been in a cover band for almost 20 years playing covers of countless different classic rock and 80s bands. I use a different preset (or multiple presets) for every song. I choose whatever amp/cab/eq/fx duplicate the tone as closely as possible in each preset.

I understand why many choose to find a small core set of presets to use, but I just can't work that way when I have the power and flexibility of the Axe. The downside is that it takes forever to program.
 
I've been in a cover band for almost 20 years playing covers of countless different classic rock and 80s bands. I use a different preset (or multiple presets) for every song. I choose whatever amp/cab/eq/fx duplicate the tone as closely as possible in each preset.

I understand why many choose to find a small core set of presets to use, but I just can't work that way when I have the power and flexibility of the Axe. The downside is that it takes forever to program.
I like you thinking!
 
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