Gigged with axe fx 2 for first time... Not what I expected... :(

[axecellent]

It was pretty good but sounded harsh in the mix... The cleans we're lost in the mix... Any suggestions on how to get the guitar to cut more.... I'm so tired of experimenting... There's got to be a solution? I went direct to FOH and used 4x12 Marshall cab and matrix power amp on stage...

Thanks in advance

 

[kush]

It was pretty good but sounded harsh in the mix... The cleans we're lost in the mix... Any suggestions on how to get the guitar to cut more.... I'm so tired of experimenting... There's got to be a solution? I went direct to FOH and used 4x12 Marshall cab and matrix power amp on stage...

Thanks in advance

I can't give any good advice on how to fix the issue, but I can offer some advice on how best to get your question answered. You're probably going to have to give a whole lot more info to get good feedback that will help you. What type of music? What kind of tone are you going for? What kind of guitar? What's your preset? Can you post it? How was it dialed in? What speakers in the Marshall cab? How is the matrix dialed? What's the FOH? What other instruments in the band are you competing with? So many variables at play...

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

Axe-Fx is not a solution for a lousy FOH engineer or faulty tweaking.

Did it sound like that on the stage or in FOH? Who told you this if it was in FOH?

There are possibly 3 people to question.

1) You. Did you tweak your volume balance and select your IRs etc with proper monitoring?

2) FOH guy. They always feel the need to try and perfect a tone if they see it's modeled. I just tell them not to mess with it since I know it's good.

3) The tube guy in the crowd who lied to you.

 

[nicolasrivera]

It was pretty good but sounded harsh in the mix... The cleans we're lost in the mix... Any suggestions on how to get the guitar to cut more.... I'm so tired of experimenting... There's got to be a solution? I went direct to FOH and used 4x12 Marshall cab and matrix power amp on stage...

Thanks in advance

who did the mix? if you sounded good onstage then who ever was in the console had to have don a better job!

 

[Ravaya]

Ok here's the deal (IMO that is). I use roughly the same setup as you.

1. I really had to tweak patches I loved when recording direct to make them work in a live situation using the matrix and cabs. I primarily use the Diezel VH4 ch3 and the JCM 800 models. What I found for example is that marshall based models with the presence above 1.00 sound really harsh going through the matrix. So dial dowm the presence even if you wouldn't normally do it. It will sweeten your sound a lot.
2. I take it you use out 2 for matrix and cabs and out 1 for FOH right? Make sure you work with the sound guy using the global eq to get the FOH sound that works. Don't worry, that will not effect your Matrix/Cab sound which you can dial as you please. Of course your band having it's own soundman always helps.
3. Getting the levels right between cleans and dirty is something that requires a little time but you ll get used to it. You don't specify if you had a level problem level wise in the FOH sound or the stage sound. For the stage sound being a problem then I suggest solve it in the rehearsal room before the gig. now FOH level problem. As a place to start, and this is a mere pointer and not a must, try using the same cab configuration for all your patches. Levels differ greatly with different IR's and it's nice to have a stable starting point when you first attempt to tackle this issue.
4. Not sure if it's relevant but still worth mentioning, that when using the matrix, the sound disperses a bit differently than if you re used to using tube power amps. I feel like it's more "directional" in a way. Just keep it in mind and adjust your patches and/or cab position accordingly.
5. I trust you use your own cab right? Major issue. If not at least make sure you use the same type of speakers you made your patches on.
6. there's a video on the Matrix site on how to use the global eq to make the Matrix feel more tube like. Personally didn't do much for me but still give it a try.
7. there's a learning curve with the axe. I wouldn't accept it at first but there is. there's a learning curve in getting the direct recording sound you want and then just when you thought it was over, you change the application to a live environment and there's another learning curve. It's just the way it is. really. But IMO it is indeed worth it.
8. the tube guy you ll never get. I can guarantee that. There ll be always something missing from your sound according to the tube guy. trust your ears only.

hope I helped

Ravaya

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

I don't think I agree.

A good balanced guitar tone sounds good no matter where you use it. If you tweak your tones through Matrix and Marshall and expect the straight-to-FOH to sound amazing then it's your own fault.

Middle is cut. Use flat settings and flat IRs and you'll sound good no matter what.

 

[DTownSMR]

I went direct to FOH and used 4x12 Marshall cab and matrix power amp on stage...

I don't use a amp as a monitor so I can't speak directly but have just been reading the manual and they talk about that type of setup in "3.4.7 Direct to FOH plus Real Amps on Stage". Did you setup your presets as dual chain presets?

 

[boardwlk17]

Some key words "For the first time" you got work with your sound. My first time with a full band sucked,but after some tweeks its kicking ass . And everyone I talk to says it sounds great. Just keep on tweeking it will cut through like a Razorblade through skin!

 

[khomel]

I don't use a amp as a monitor so I can't speak directly but have just been reading the manual and they talk about that type of setup in "3.4.7 Direct to FOH plus Real Amps on Stage". Did you setup your presets as dual chain presets?

This is key. You need to have two signal chains if you are going to go to direct to FOH and use an amp and cab on stage. You can't use amp/cab sims for your out 2 mix. So, your FOH sound will sound different than your on stage sound.

If you have it dialed in with the Matrix and the cab, then just have the sound guy mic the cab. Problem solved. I know a lot of folks here will balk at that, but it will get the job done with a minimum of fuss. And you'll have the sound you want on stage. Because FOH is at the mercy of the sound guy, as you know.

Either that, or go direct and use a stage monitor. But that's a crap shoot if you are concerned about color in your sound or EQ from the sound guy.

 

[supersonic]

My band records straight to the desk. I often listen back to the desk recordings, and tweak from there. If it sounds good on the desk it is set right.

 

[yek]

This is key. You need to have two signal chains if you are going to go to direct to FOH and use an amp and cab on stage. You can't use amp/cab sims for your out 2 mix.

Nope. The OP is using a flat/neutral power amp. This makes it possible to use a single chain, with a FXL block to feed FR/FOH. Many, many players do this.

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

Why not make an impulse of your Matrix+Marshall and use it with your FOH signal? This way it should be similar to what you're hearing with your cab.

 

[666was999]

I guess the key step with such a setup is to have a good IR of the cab that you use as your monitor. It must not be your self captured IR but it should be an IR with the same sonical shape. Otherwise it could happen that your cab is filtering something or adding something that the IR don't and you even don't notice when something goes wrong with the FOH signal.


Edit: Too slow, superman was faster...

 

[steve_k]

Ditch the amp and cab. Set up with a FR wedge. Copy outputs to 2 and send to the FOH. Tell the FOH guy to give you a flat EQ. Should be near enough to the same as what you set up by or are hearing from the monitors.

Steve

 

[luke]

It's hard enough to get one good sound, trying to have two simultaneously just adds to your problems.

 

[aziz]

Tweak the patches at 100db.

 

[ventura]

Ditch the amp and cab. Set up with a FR wedge. Copy outputs to 2 and send to the FOH. Tell the FOH guy to give you a flat EQ. Should be near enough to the same as what you set up by or are hearing from the monitors.

Steve

Straight up best advice thus far.

 

[khomel]

Nope. The OP is using a flat/neutral power amp. This makes it possible to use a single chain, with a FXL block to feed FR/FOH. Many, many players do this.

Yeah, but he's using a cab sim and a 4x12 Marshall cab. That's going to sound horrible.

Single chain/dual chain...whatever you want to call it. FXL block before the cab sim would do it, of course.

 

[axecellent]

Ok here's the deal (IMO that is). I use roughly the same setup as you.

1. I really had to tweak patches I loved when recording direct to make them work in a live situation using the matrix and cabs. I primarily use the Diezel VH4 ch3 and the JCM 800 models. What I found for example is that marshall based models with the presence above 1.00 sound really harsh going through the matrix. So dial dowm the presence even if you wouldn't normally do it. It will sweeten your sound a lot.
2. I take it you use out 2 for matrix and cabs and out 1 for FOH right? Make sure you work with the sound guy using the global eq to get the FOH sound that works. Don't worry, that will not effect your Matrix/Cab sound which you can dial as you please. Of course your band having it's own soundman always helps.
3. Getting the levels right between cleans and dirty is something that requires a little time but you ll get used to it. You don't specify if you had a level problem level wise in the FOH sound or the stage sound. For the stage sound being a problem then I suggest solve it in the rehearsal room before the gig. now FOH level problem. As a place to start, and this is a mere pointer and not a must, try using the same cab configuration for all your patches. Levels differ greatly with different IR's and it's nice to have a stable starting point when you first attempt to tackle this issue.
4. Not sure if it's relevant but still worth mentioning, that when using the matrix, the sound disperses a bit differently than if you re used to using tube power amps. I feel like it's more "directional" in a way. Just keep it in mind and adjust your patches and/or cab position accordingly.
5. I trust you use your own cab right? Major issue. If not at least make sure you use the same type of speakers you made your patches on.
6. there's a video on the Matrix site on how to use the global eq to make the Matrix feel more tube like. Personally didn't do much for me but still give it a try.
7. there's a learning curve with the axe. I wouldn't accept it at first but there is. there's a learning curve in getting the direct recording sound you want and then just when you thought it was over, you change the application to a live environment and there's another learning curve. It's just the way it is. really. But IMO it is indeed worth it.
8. the tube guy you ll never get. I can guarantee that. There ll be always something missing from your sound according to the tube guy. trust your ears only.

hope I helped

Ravaya

You seem to know exactly where I'm coming from....some of the stuff you mentioned was very interesting, I'm going to take some of your advice...I'll try what you said... thanks man...I'll let you know how it works out. cheers!

 

[clarky]

I went direct to FOH and used 4x12 Marshall cab and matrix power amp on stage...

were the cab sims on or off?

did you split the signal so that the outs to the Matrix had no cab sims [cos the Marshall]
and the outs to the FOH went via the cab block

cos if the cab sims were off [cos the Marshall cab] and the signal going to the FOH also wouldn't have the cab sims running
so you'd sound like a kazoo via the FOH - nasty, brittle, harsh and fuzzy