Gift of Tone... why only Firmware 21?

I am on Firmware 15.0 because updating ruined my tones for live metal band. Excursion bias or some such... I used several GOTs and enjoyed them on FM9, which is up to date. (I use it for a different rock cover band). What would I have to do to my presets to keep Firmware 14-15 tones in order to get back up to date? I used to love new firmware day, now only lamentations. And why can't I just import and tweak these gifts on any firmware ?

Thor
Updates are not that 'intelligent'. It's usually just a binary/microcode replacement.
 
I tried updating to 21 again, no way. 15 is what works for me. Turning any and every Bias Excursion knob down made only marginal improvement. All my presets were unlistenable, just a swarm of bees. Angle Severe 1 is my go to amp and I turned all gains and drives down and there's just nothing there. No more power or growl. Shoot...
 
Post a preset that's not working under 21. Folks here can help you figure it out.
… along with a copy of the system settings backup, and a sound sample with the guitar type and pickups specified. The more we know, and the closer we can get our system to yours, the better we can figure out what's happening.
 
I tried updating to 21 again, no way. 15 is what works for me. Turning any and every Bias Excursion knob down made only marginal improvement. All my presets were unlistenable, just a swarm of bees. Angle Severe 1 is my go to amp and I turned all gains and drives down and there's just nothing there. No more power or growl. Shoot...
As many have already suggested, rebuilding presets from the ground up is sometimes easier and quicker to achieve the desired results than trying to tweak an existing preset that was created a dozen or so firmwares ago.

That being said though, you seem pretty well dialed into what FW15 provides you. Updating just to use some freebies at the cost of your primary sounds you're completely happy with isn't a worthwhile trade-off imo.
 
It is one plus of when a unit gets no more updates that you are “stuck” with those tones.

It drove me nuts trying to get a couple of sounds on the II that were dear to me on the ultra.

That’s one feature that would be really nice is if there was a away to snapshot or toneprint a sound that future fw updates won’t change the sound.
 
I’d be really interested to hear some clips of the difference. And yes please post the preset! I too prefer the non-bee end of the spectrum, and I’d be very keen to see what the resident magicians do to re-15-ize a Cygnus preset.
 
I’d be really interested to hear some clips of the difference. And yes please post the preset! I too prefer the non-bee end of the spectrum, and I’d be very keen to see what the resident magicians do to re-15-ize a Cygnus preset.
Probably change
Impedance curve , IR
Speaker drive 0 speaker compression 0 Speaker breakup hard , turn on the input boost
Tweak the low cut
For a start ..
 
The Cygnus modeling is legit when comparing it to real amps. The top end sizzle in 21 is similar to (if not a little less than) the sizzle I hear from my tube amps, so the modeling is getting more and more accurate. If you’re going from FW15 to FW21, try a making a preset from scratch and see how you feel. Keep in mind that a big difference since FW15 is that the Master Volume now has a taper authentic to each amp, so try reducing it or bumping it up to get the power amp sitting where you like it. The Master Volume and Presence controls are probably the two most important knobs to pay attention to when dialing in a tone. Get those right and the amp practically tweaks itself.

If you don’t like top end air, use the high cut in the Cab block to shave off what you don’t want just like using an EQ in your DAW to shape the top end of a real recoded amp if it’s needed.

For the amps I’ve tested and matched with FW21, these were the closest:
Brit 800 to my ‘77 2204
PVH 6160 Block to my 5150
Solo 100 Lead to my Soldano Avenger
Dizzy Silver to my Diezel VH-2 (the Fractal actually sounds better than my amp)
USA Lead Mid Gain to my Mesa Mark IVa
Matchbox D30 to my Matchless C-30 head

The Dual Rec models need a little more help to match my Rev F, Tremoverb, and Multi-Watt, but they’re still in the ballpark after tweaking the model’s GEQ section a bit which isn’t a big deal.

All that to say, tweak FW21 like a real amp and you’ll get more realistic results. :)
 
The Cygnus modeling is legit when comparing it to real amps. The top end sizzle in 21 is similar to (if not a little less than) the sizzle I hear from my tube amps, so the modeling is getting more and more accurate. If you’re going from FW15 to FW21, try a making a preset from scratch and see how you feel. Keep in mind that a big difference since FW15 is that the Master Volume now has a taper authentic to each amp, so try reducing it or bumping it up to get the power amp sitting where you like it. The Master Volume and Presence controls are probably the two most important knobs to pay attention to when dialing in a tone. Get those right and the amp practically tweaks itself.

If you don’t like top end air, use the high cut in the Cab block to shave off what you don’t want just like using an EQ in your DAW to shape the top end of a real recoded amp if it’s needed.

For the amps I’ve tested and matched with FW21, these were the closest:
Brit 800 to my ‘77 2204
PVH 6160 Block to my 5150
Solo 100 Lead to my Soldano Avenger
Dizzy Silver to my Diezel VH-2 (the Fractal actually sounds better than my amp)
USA Lead Mid Gain to my Mesa Mark IVa
Matchbox D30 to my Matchless C-30 head

The Dual Rec models need a little more help to match my Rev F, Tremoverb, and Multi-Watt, but they’re still in the ballpark after tweaking the model’s GEQ section a bit which isn’t a big deal.

All that to say, tweak FW21 like a real amp and you’ll get more realistic results. :)
Mr. York, "my sound" doesn't come from tones of amps I'ved owned. I've really only had 2 real amps, both Marshall 1959 Super Leads, one from my youth (early 70s) and a 1971 I currently tinker with. Since 1980s I only had preamps and modelers starting with the AxSys in '98. The tones are in my head: Dick Wagner on Aerosmith 's Train Kept A Rollin', Schenker on Strangers In The Night, Uli Roth on Fire Wind, Petrucci on Metropolis pt. 2, and Akerfeldt on Ghost Reveries. So I tweak to get there. It's not hard to get there, it's just I tweak to album tones of the songs my bands play and I have too many to redo. I've been doing the Fractal thing since 2008 and the move to update was never difficult because before it became a problem, there was a NEW PRODUCT TO LEARN (@cchase). I missed all the new stuff as a gear nerd, still love building presets, but now these boxes are tools to me. Fuckin' great ones!
 
Mr. York, "my sound" doesn't come from tones of amps I'ved owned. I've really only had 2 real amps, both Marshall 1959 Super Leads, one from my youth (early 70s) and a 1971 I currently tinker with. Since 1980s I only had preamps and modelers starting with the AxSys in '98. The tones are in my head: Dick Wagner on Aerosmith 's Train Kept A Rollin', Schenker on Strangers In The Night, Uli Roth on Fire Wind, Petrucci on Metropolis pt. 2, and Akerfeldt on Ghost Reveries. So I tweak to get there. It's not hard to get there, it's just I tweak to album tones of the songs my bands play and I have too many to redo. I've been doing the Fractal thing since 2008 and the move to update was never difficult because before it became a problem, there was a NEW PRODUCT TO LEARN (@cchase). I missed all the new stuff as a gear nerd, still love building presets, but now these boxes are tools to me. Fuckin' great ones!

Dick Wagner was his name then? I knew another player did those parts. Classic. Replying to your post cause Train Kept A Rollin is fresh in my mind. I work nights and this morning was my Friday night. I’ve been binging Jeff Beck and started seeing other versions of that song. I listened to a bunch including the original while sippin on some Rye this morning. But the Aerosmith version with Dick is still my fav.

Edit: Steve Hunter did the opening solo and Dick did the ‘live’ solo. Either way they’re both kickass solos. Been stuck in my head for many years. Now back to the thread…

https://www.guitarworld.com/artists/who-really-played-aerosmiths-train-kept-rollin-guitar-solos
 
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