Gibson reconsiders

FractalAudio said:
Instead of buggy robo-tuners, just put some decent tuning machines on them. They sound glorious when they're in tune, which lasts about 30 seconds.
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the reason why they call it a robo tuner. They need an instable tuning mechanic, so Mr. Robo can show his craft.....meanless machine technology ;)
 
At the risk of sounding geezerly...

I remember that a lot of Fender / Gibson guitars built during in the 70s were all over the map for quality, and many of them seemed like mere "products" being cranked out by manufacturers looking to maximize profit by cutting costs. Another factor in the quality range is that many Fender and Gibson guitars built into the 70s were still hand-shaped / hand-machined, resulting in significant quality variance. Even after you'd settled on a specific model, you had to play a lot of guitars to find a really great one with a good body, good neck, good electronics, and good overall build. As soon as everyone - including Fender and Gibson - starting using CNC routers / cutters, and and other computerized equipment to manufacture instrument necks/ bodies / components, the quality variance was greatly reduced and the overall level of quality was uniformly higher. Manufacturing cost went down, but generally speaking, the prices didn't.

In 1979, I wanted a Gibson, but couldn't find a really great Les Paul in my area at a decent price, so I decided to order a guitar from Carvin. It was phenomenal in quality, and clearly had been built by people who were passionate about electric guitars. Same for my first exposure to PRS, Suhr, Knaggs, Reverend guitars, etc. When I was in high school in 1978, you could buy a brand-new strat or a brand-new Les Paul custom, for about $650. I think Fender has returned to making high-quality guitars, and you can still buy a new strat for about the same price as when I was in high school - and I would wager it's probably a better guitar than what was available in 1978. A brand new 2015 Les Paul Custom is around $3200 or more. Sure, they're nice guitars. But for that price you could buy a beautiful PRS, a highly customized Carvin / Kiesel (or two), three nice strats, or one of many other lovely boutique guitars. Gibson has been woefully out-of-touch with the general guitar purchasing community for a long time, and this press announcement is evidence of their current state. It's a bummer. Gibsons were once highly covetable and highly accessible to musicians. I think they've really fallen from their throne. And can't get up.
 
I hope they do revert because I wanted to buy a Les Paul Standard in 2014 but I couldn't get past the stupid 12th fret anniversary statement they stamped on every guitar. So I decided I would wait till the 2015 models come out that would look more normal and we get hit with a huge price increase that basically caused me to reconsider Gibson. I began looking at other brands and have my eyes set on a few new options now. However if 2016 prices do revert and they don't do anything stupid like brand the 12th fret with something ugly, I may get one finally. Really their decisions in 2014 and 2015 basically kept me from buying anything from them for 2 years. I know I could have bought used but I just didn't want to.
 
Gibsons are just too much money for what you get now days. I have a 2012 standard it sounds good plays good but either of my PRS guitars are just better. If you are going to drop $2500 on a les Paul, but a PRS instead you will be happier. And you will get a much nicer guitar.
 
Mark's Tone said:
Its not enough.

agree with OP...to little too late.
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Sadly, I agree.

They need to get their heads out of their arses, quit being a corporate minimum wage company that even their own employers wouldnt touch, produce faar less guitars, hire actual luthiers and competent apprentices and price their instruments accordingly, we all know you get what you pay for.

But lets be realistic, if they was going to take a leaf from PRS's 'how to do it right' book, they would have done it years ago
 
Going to play devil's advocate for a bit, because someone needs to...

Yes, the Hank J. era is a monstrosity that even makes Norlin blush.
Yes, robot tuners along with a 30% price hike across the board is just plain dumb.
Yes, Hank is catering to the "lawyer blues" crowd more interested in wall art than a great player.
Yes, as a looong time Gibson customer, I'm put off by all of this.

But...

When you find the right LP, scrap their crap 490's or whatever and drop in some hot PAF style pups, maybe a couple PIO caps for ~$5 a pop, man, nothing roars like it. Nothing. It might weigh more than a dead star, but it'll be punchy, tight, clear, mean, clean up well, bite in the bridge & sing in the neck. You might have to play dozens and dozens of them before you find a keeper, but once you do, you don't let it go. I almost did with my #1 a couple times before getting cold feet and/or the sense knocked back into me... and there are a couple others I wish I could get back. My keeper LP took over half a dozen returns before I got one that was just right, but if you're patient enough to deal with the QC bullshit, and if the coming price reduction puts them back on your radar, you'll see what I mean.

It *might* not be the best guitar out there for anything (IMO it owns rock, has the pedigree to prove it), but it sure as hell is the best guitar out there for everything.

EDIT: the company can still go straight to hell for all the reasons above along with treating their employees like garbage. I'm just talking about the guitar design itself... save maybe for the TOM bridge, which the real Les Paul actually fought against, hard, but lost.
 
I have Custom Shop Strats, a 1965 Strat and four PRS(usa) guitars but not one Gibson.
There's a reason for that. I worked in a pro guitar shop for many years and only played two Gibsons that made say "yeh!".
Both were vintage - 1960 Es330 (P90) and a 1968 LesPaul (P90).
For some reason i can't play Gibbos in tune. They drive me nuts.
Over the years I saw some truly awful finishing quality on many Gibson guitars and working in that shop playing so many of them cured me of my boyhood Gibson GAS for all time.
Give me a Paul Reed Smith any day over a Gibson.
Having said that, I'm not a particular fan of those super heavy 70s Strats either and my LtdEd Custom Shop Stratocaster was built with a scratch-plate that was misaligned so the trem wouldn't work properly.
Happily that was an easy fix but surprising nonetheless.
I'm disappointed for Gibson that their legacy has been diminished - in my eyes anyway.
 
My experience: 2014 I had the idea to finally get a nice Les Paul (in the early 70's, I was fortunate enough to own a mid-60's Les Paul Custom, Fretless Wonder, that was later stolen...so I know what a nice LP is supposed to be).

Anyway, I got one of the 2014 LP Traditional Pro's from Sweetwater... Even though it has 12-fret inlay, it is a really nice example of what a LP should be and I love playing it! Cost: $2500, which I don't consider outrageous... just my 2 cents worth,
 
I don't get the hangup over the 2014 inlay. It was an anniversary run, virtually every major builder does the same sort of thing in one way or another.

The asymmetrical neck I can understand. I actually kinda' liked it in a way, but it's definitely not for everyone, and it's definitely not part of the classic design.

Let's also not forget that Gibson has made some pretty cool advancements mainstream over the years. Most recently, plek'd setups come to mind.

They've also been harassed by the government in recent years without any charges filed as far as I am aware. Not trying to make this political... I'm just saying, as someone who's been a part of the big brother machine, when Uncle Sam wants to put you under the microscope, life gets expensive. That might explain the temporary price hikes. They're also the #1 company in terms of being damaged by knockoffs, and without them GC would have probably folded over this summer. All of these things cost money. While none of you (nor I) might like it, they're not the first company to cater to the very wealthy.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
hussamd said:
Moved on to Kiesel/Carvins and could not be happier.
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These guitars are hard to beat for the money! People have over looked these guitars for many years but that is about to change. Their quality for the buck is off the charts for a made in the USA guitar. Just my 2 cents, YMMV.......................
 
Sleestak said:
At the risk of sounding geezerly...

I remember that a lot of Fender / Gibson guitars built during in the 70s were all over the map for quality, and many of them seemed like mere "products" being cranked out by manufacturers looking to maximize profit by cutting costs. Another factor in the quality range is that many Fender and Gibson guitars built into the 70s were still hand-shaped / hand-machined, resulting in significant quality variance. Even after you'd settled on a specific model, you had to play a lot of guitars to find a really great one with a good body, good neck, good electronics, and good overall build. As soon as everyone - including Fender and Gibson - starting using CNC routers / cutters, and and other computerized equipment to manufacture instrument necks/ bodies / components, the quality variance was greatly reduced and the overall level of quality was uniformly higher. Manufacturing cost went down, but generally speaking, the prices didn't.

In 1979, I wanted a Gibson, but couldn't find a really great Les Paul in my area at a decent price, so I decided to order a guitar from Carvin. It was phenomenal in quality, and clearly had been built by people who were passionate about electric guitars. Same for my first exposure to PRS, Suhr, Knaggs, Reverend guitars, etc. When I was in high school in 1978, you could buy a brand-new strat or a brand-new Les Paul custom, for about $650. I think Fender has returned to making high-quality guitars, and you can still buy a new strat for about the same price as when I was in high school - and I would wager it's probably a better guitar than what was available in 1978. A brand new 2015 Les Paul Custom is around $3200 or more. Sure, they're nice guitars. But for that price you could buy a beautiful PRS, a highly customized Carvin / Kiesel (or two), three nice strats, or one of many other lovely boutique guitars. Gibson has been woefully out-of-touch with the general guitar purchasing community for a long time, and this press announcement is evidence of their current state. It's a bummer. Gibsons were once highly covetable and highly accessible to musicians. I think they've really fallen from their throne. And can't get up.
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Worst case of "The Kings New Clothes" I've ever seen.
 
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ChrisCG said:
Gibsons are just too much money for what you get now days. I have a 2012 standard it sounds good plays good but either of my PRS guitars are just better. If you are going to drop $2500 on a les Paul, but a PRS instead you will be happier. And you will get a much nicer guitar.
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I'm definitely not going to defend Gibson's business practices, even though my first "real" guitar was a '79 LP Custom and I currently own 3 Les Pauls, including a 2013 R8. Up through 2013, their Custom Shop models, while pricey, generally were pretty good recreations with a singularly unique tone and feel. Their configuration shenanigans in 2014 and absurd price increases in 2015 have predictably backfired, but I don't see them doing anything but going back to 2013 specs and pricing, hopefully with no more "innovations".

I recently tried a new PRS 30th Anniversary Custom 24. The QC, fit, and finish were phenomenal. It's quite apparent that PRS has their s**t together in producing quality instruments. However, I simply could not bond with the guitar. It looked great, felt solid, and generally sounded pretty good, but it just did not "click" for me; playing it felt like operating a competently made functional tool, but nothing that oozed character or made me feel inspired or connected with me on an emotional level. Since I already had 9 electric guitars, I couldn't justify keeping it for the price I paid (and at the time it impressed me most after trying several other models). If it was a Gibson, I would have perhaps kept trying more of them in the hopes that one would stand out, but ironically, the consistency of PRS forced me to accept that something about their guitars just weren't doing it for me.

Again, this is no slight at all on PRS or its instruments, but I do think every player looks for a certain unique feel and tone from their instruments. I couldn't get that from the PRS's I tried (I envy those that can, as they also have a certain baseline of QC & quality they can depend on!). I do feel that connection with the Les Pauls I own… but I did have to try quite a few of them to find the right ones. And like a crack addict, I'll likely keep looking for that elusive "even better one" out there somewhere. And likely Gibson knows that and will continue to capitalize on it (unfortunately for me)!
 
I kind of dug the 2015 wider fingerboard spec change and the adjustable nut isn't a terrible idea in practice. I would likely replace the robo tuners with locking Schallers or something similar if I were to get one.

Obviously they aren't doing well with it though if they are announcing and shipping 2016 models already though.
 
$2500, which I don't consider outrageous...
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€2500 for a factory made guitar, custom shop or not, is outrageous.
That's what I pay for a real hand build guitar with premium wood and attention to detail not even the Gibson, Fendor or even PRS can touch.
It's robbery at it's purest and if you're wiling to pay that much for a guitar just because it has a certain brand, you're an idiot and the accountants are laughing al the way to the bank.

A factory built guitar shouldn't cost over €1500.

And Gibson are reconsidering?
i don't give a fuck.
I won't ever buy a Gibson.. ever... period.
I just had someone over with a €5000 Gibson.
I didn't know it was that expensive until after I played it and I wasn't too impressed and he told me about the special limited series and all....
Later I found out it was one of the collector's choice...

Overpriced you say????

But it seems there are enough idiots willing to pay for a brand.
Instead, if they're willing to spend that much money, they should support a (local) luthier who really deserves it.

All IMHO an YMMV of course :)
 
Comparing my 2014 ESP E-II M-II, to my 2002 Les Paul Standard which cost double what the hand made ESP cost.... the ESP completely out plays, out sustains, and is just a superior instrument in every way.

It's true though that Les Pauls do have a unique sound/tone, but IMHO this does not warrant the disgusting price.
 
PacoCasanovas said:
too late, never pay for gibson again. Tokai does great, old Burny or Greco too.....japanese build better paulas than big G......
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My Edwards (made by ESP) Les Paul clone agrees with you. Perfect fretwork, awesome finish, long neck tenon, lightweight, resonant woods (about 8.5lbs total), Gotoh hardware, Duncan pickups all stock for less than $700 delivered from Japan.
 
I have a 70-80 era Strat - Antiqua color - that I like a lot and played it for years. Put different pickups in it started out with Carvins AP11's which sounded great, ended up with Lace Sensors. When I was looking to add to my stash I explored Gibsons, Fenders, PRS, Etc... Didn't like anything I saw, and really think the prices you pay from something 'off the rack' at GC, Sam Ash are way to much. I bought a Carvin and was really pleased with the quality of the guitar especially for the price. I have been playing a Sadowsky for a few years now, absolutely the BEST guitar I have ever played. Definitely worth the money. I may one day buy an older 335 one day, but I think a custom, handmade, at least for my dollars is the way to go. And I think the robo tuner thing is crap...


DT
 
luke said:
It's moves like these that allow companies like PRS, Suhr and Knaggs to prosper. Had Gibson and Fender provided top quality at reasonable pricing there would have been little room to grow for upstarts.
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I play a Suhr Rasmus (CHINA) Guthrie Govan for $1500 and it sounds just as good as my bandmate's US $3000+ version of the same guitar. I've since had the Rasmus refretted with stainless steel frets. John Suhr left Fender because there was a ceiling of quality that he wanted to acheive outside of Fender's concept of guitars. The Suhr Telecasters are amazing too! Best versions of the strat, tele and super strats IMHO You don't have to pay more than my friend did for a badass Suhr workhorse.
 
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