Gibson fights back!!!

"The shipments of wood from Madagascar and India were deemed illegal because they were unfinished -- something those countries prohibited.
However, finished fingerboards presumably would have been legal."

Companies should obviously play by the rules and be fined etc when they don't.

This action doesn't seem to be about the depletion of a scare resource, It seems likely to be political payback to somebody not
supportive of the administration. That's the troubling part. The endangered wood issue seems to be an emotional smoke screen.
(After all, who would be against saving endangered wood or baby pandas or, or...right?)

I'm just glad Gibson got through this and is even celebrating it with this gov't model, very creative and positive twist in the story.
 
just to clear up a point here: the violation of the Lacey Act was really nothing to do with ravaging an endangered species wood. The violation was that the law, or some version of the law somewhere, stated that the wood cut in its raw form would need to be further processed, or manufactured in some way on its native soil before it could be legally exported. If exported without such native "manufacturing", then it would be in violation of the law. This is wood that is still commonly used by guitar makers all over the world, as I understand it. We aren't talking about elephant or rhino tusks here. At least this is my understanding of the issue.

As for the settlement, this kind of stuff happens all the time, especially in municipalities where a city/town employee feels they have been fired or laid-off unfairly, and files a law suit against the city/town. What usually happens is the municipality will come up with a lump sum settlement that is acceptable to the plaintiff, but will in the end save hundreds of thousands, or even millions in taxpayer funded legal fees.

I'm not interested in defending Gibson if they screwed up, either. I am very interested in how the federal government approached Gibson on this. If Gibson was warned by the FBI, who said they had Gibson dead to rights on this violation, then Gibson should have been more forthright and come clean early in the game. It's not clear to me that Gibson was ever warned about this, but rather, they were just greeted by a SWAT team that pretty much had their way with whatever goods and office equipment they wanted. So that is my problem with all this. As much as Gibson may have done something wrong, does it really take a fully armed SWAT team to get to the bottom of something like this? Over little strips of rosewood and mahogany? Don't you think that is excessive? Given some of the problems this country has with violent illegal activities that really do hurt people and change their lives (for the worse), an armed raid on a freaking guitar manufacturer just doesn't sit right with me, and is too strong-arm for my taste. JMHO.
 
jimfist said:
just to clear up a point here: the violation of the Lacey Act was really nothing to do with ravaging an endangered species wood. The violation was that the law, or some version of the law somewhere, stated that the wood cut in its raw form would need to be further processed, or manufactured in some way on its native soil before it could be legally exported. If exported without such native "manufacturing", then it would be in violation of the law. This is wood that is still commonly used by guitar makers all over the world, as I understand it. We aren't talking about elephant or rhino tusks here. At least this is my understanding of the issue.

As for the settlement, this kind of stuff happens all the time, especially in municipalities where a city/town employee feels they have been fired or laid-off unfairly, and files a law suit against the city/town. What usually happens is the municipality will come up with a lump sum settlement that is acceptable to the plaintiff, but will in the end save hundreds of thousands, or even millions in taxpayer funded legal fees.

I'm not interested in defending Gibson if they screwed up, either. I am very interested in how the federal government approached Gibson on this. If Gibson was warned by the FBI, who said they had Gibson dead to rights on this violation, then Gibson should have been more forthright and come clean early in the game. It's not clear to me that Gibson was ever warned about this, but rather, they were just greeted by a SWAT team that pretty much had their way with whatever goods and office equipment they wanted. So that is my problem with all this. As much as Gibson may have done something wrong, does it really take a fully armed SWAT team to get to the bottom of something like this? Over little strips of rosewood and mahogany? Don't you think that is excessive? Given some of the problems this country has with violent illegal activities that really do hurt people and change their lives (for the worse), an armed raid on a freaking guitar manufacturer just doesn't sit right with me, and is too strong-arm for my taste. JMHO.
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Thanks for the clarification! I've gotta agree with most points, tbh. As I said, I'm not well informed. :)

SWAT teams to raid a guitar manufacturer? Yeah, I'm not really sure where they were gonna need the firepower.... maybe for all the charging black rhino! :D :D

Regarding the wood, a lot of it is still sourced from cheap suppliers who in turn get it from companies who function in places where sustainability isn't a priority, or even a concern. We all know that if something is legal doesn't necessarily make it right. That's my major bugbear. Lots, if not most guitar manufacturers use this wood, and it just seems to be short sighted to celebrate the wood seized without a word about sustainable timber. Don't get me wrong, the first thing I check about a guitar is not the sustainability of the source, just like most folks here I reckon. But if two guitars were put in front of me, one sourced from sustainable forests and one not, I would do my best to pick the sustainable one. I'm not sure if we're being given that choice. That's a shame, and is worth more than Gibsons two fingers to the government.

I have to give kudos to Gibson about one thing though. They, along with Fender, Martin and Taylor were involved with Greenpeace to try to get US loggers to change their ways. The main solution isn't in the hands of the guitar companies, although they do have a part to play. To me, that effort is worth far more publicity in the long term, but the opportunity has been lost in favour of a new guitar line. C'est la vie. As Chris Martin said (Martin guitars CEO, not the other one... ;) ) "The last tree (for guitar wood) will be cut down in our lifetime". That scares me.

It's the governments and loggers faults (IMHO) for not enacting enough legislation to protect resources en masse. instead they seem to have gone for the soft target. Mind you, we all know how useless most governments are when it comes to environmental issues. Money talks.
 
I love when people who don't know anything about a topic comment with their opinions. I am from Memphis and know the story well. This was a procedural issue that was overblown by the government trying to make a statement. The settlement was necessary to stop the company from losing millions of dollars. By the way there were two raids over a year apart in full riot gear. They went in like Gibson was a major Meth manufacturer.


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rocketcity said:
I love when people who don't know anything about a topic comment with their opinions. I am from Memphis and know the story well. This was a procedural issue that was overblown by the government trying to make a statement. The settlement was necessary to stop the company from losing millions of dollars. By the way there were two raids over a year apart in full riot gear. They went in like Gibson was a major Meth manufacturer.
Click to expand...

Yup, but it's a great way to learn quickly and to cut through B.S.! :D The problems come when people refuse to alter their opinions, I've found.

I'd still love to try some of those new type carbon fibre guitars ahead of a Government Series though.
 
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