Getting stage volume down with Mesa 2:90 poweramp

Tremonti

Tremonti

Fractal Fanatic
I play in a 4 piece cover band....sole guitarist. I use the Axe Fx std with a Mesa Boogie power 2:90 poweramp and a Genz Benz 2x12 G Flex cab....AWESOME sound. My band says I'm too loud. I run the Axe input knob at about 1 o'clock and the output around the same.....I run the Mesa full on in stereo mode.

What should I do to get the sound I need at lower volumes? I know it's always a bitch for us guitarists...and other bandmates don't "get it" that amps sound better at louder volumes. What should I do to help make them happy while not sacrificing my sound totally? Turn the poweramp to half? Turn down the output on the Axe? Suggestions please.....Thanks!
 
Tremonti said:
I play in a 4 piece cover band....sole guitarist. I use the Axe Fx std with a Mesa Boogie power 2:90 poweramp and a Genz Benz 2x12 G Flex cab....AWESOME sound. My band says I'm too loud. I run the Axe input knob at about 1 o'clock and the output around the same.....I run the Mesa full on in stereo mode.

What should I do to get the sound I need at lower volumes? I know it's always a bitch for us guitarists...and other bandmates don't "get it" that amps sound better at louder volumes. What should I do to help make them happy while not sacrificing my sound totally? Turn the poweramp to half? Turn down the output on the Axe? Suggestions please.....Thanks!
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It sounds like your turning up so you can here your self in the stage mix correct? Here are a few ideas for you to try. 1st thing that really helped me with this issue was to pay a little more attiontion to where you sit in the stage mix. Not a blast to you but sometimes you get so inthralled in your sond you think you need to be loud in order for everyone to here you not the case. 2nd I ditched my tube power amp and moved to a SS amp. To me for some reason I seamed to have better controll over volume and I sat better in the mix. It requires a little tunning in the Axe but nothing heavy. 3rd, work with the EQ in the Axe to get a better sound at a lower volume. 4th If possable try moving your 212 it in front of you and aiming it upwords using it as a monitor along with the floor monitor (if you use one) and micing from that location (if your micing) for FOH and monitors.



If your not micing and using the 212 strictly as back line sound for FOH then your going to have to get out in front of your band wile playing, have some one help blend your mix to where it sounds good out front and deal with what your left with on stage, which usually makes it real hard to here your self depending on how and where you set your cab. A stand back is a usefull little item as most of your sound is blazing your feet. You could do the same thing behind you and tilt it back and aim it upwords around your chest . FOH will suffer but not as much.


Aming your cab across the stage helps sometimes as well but again if your not micing your cab FOH suffers more.


Another thing you could do is to use O/P 2 for your amp and cab using that again as your personal monitor for your rig pointing at your head and O/P1 for FOH and monitors which requires a little tweeking to say the least. Down side to this is if everyone doesn't have monitors this doesn't work very well for the other band members as far as hearing you.

Last but not least theirs always FRFR which opens up a whole new can of worms :lol: .

I'm sure their are a few other ideas I have missed but you need to experiment with a few of these and see what works best for you and your band mates.
 
Yeah I mic both speakers so having amp face me might work....my issue isn't with being in the mix as it is getting "that sound" that amp achieve when running at higher volumes...not power tube distortion or anything..but just a meatier sound. What about a shield infront of amp? I see the clear sonics...but I may just build my own outta plexi at LOWES. Suggestions?
 
Tremonti said:
Yeah I mic both speakers so having amp face me might work....my issue isn't with being in the mix as it is getting "that sound" that amp achieve when running at higher volumes...not power tube distortion or anything..but just a meatier sound. What about a shield infront of amp? I see the clear sonics...but I may just build my own outta plexi at LOWES. Suggestions?
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Considering your micing the cabs then pointing them at you will work the best. I did the same thing with a pair of Mesa Recto 212's and a floor monitor to help cut down stage volume and it worked very well. I was able to here all my tone and not fry people on stage or in the audience. You may find your self pulling out some highs though and adding some bottom. A shield would work also but you get better interaction with your cabs when their out in front of you :twisted: . Let us know what you settel on.
 
Get a 4x4 piece of wood, cut it to length, paint it flat black and stick it under the front of the G-flex and point it at your noggin.

Cheap and very effective. The G-flex cab is deep, so it will still be very stable (slope will be about 30 degrees).

You will be able to turn down your Axe output while keeping those power tubes cranked.
 
By "full on", do you mean that you're running the 2:90 at full volume? :shock:

Do you find yourself saying "WHAT?" frequently? Do you wear earplugs?

Dude, turn it down. It still sounds good at lower settings. After playing
through a 2:90 for years, I'm guessing your bandmates are right. You're
probably too loud.

Just my $.02.

pneil
 
pneil said:
By "full on", do you mean that you're running the 2:90 at full volume? :shock:
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Maybe he is playing arenas. :D

I used a 2/50/2 into a G-flex at one point and it was ear-splitting. Can't imagine the SPL on the 2:90.
 
Tremonti said:
...
My band says I'm too loud. I run the Axe input knob at about 1 o'clock and the output around the same.....I run the Mesa full on in stereo mode.
...
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Man, that's got to be deaffeningly loud. I used to have a 2:90, and found that it was loud enough to kill large mammals. I sold it and bought a 2:20 (which was still stupid loud, but merely enough to kill smaller mammals). I *never* ever ran either of these two amps at full output. Ever.

And the Axe-FX at 1 o'clock will drive any decent power amp into stupid loud levels. I have an FBT Verve 12mA (at half volume) and run my Axe-FX at 9:00 at home, 10:00 to 11:00 o'clock in loud band rehearsal conditions.

I'll have to agree with pneil, and assume that if you're running a 2:90 at full power, you're probably deaf by now. And your bandmates would therefore be correct.

I have to admit the 2:90 did come alive at a certain level, but for me, it was much much lower than even 12:00 noon.

Daniel
 
Just turn down.

Any sonic effect that playing a tube amp loud can get can be gotten within the Axe at any volume.
If you just like the feeling of the wind blowing in your hair as your amp moves the air, then grow up and get over it.

If you really can't hear yourself on stage the way you need to then angle the speakers more towards your ears and stand closer to them.
 
If it was like my 2X12, a lot of the sound is projecting right past you, and your bandmates are being deafened by collateral decibels.

It was worse in my case because my Hard Truckers 2X12 is open back, so I was really killing the drummers. And the keyboard player was always asking me to angle it a few degrees away from him. But I was using JBL E-120s, which are known for their extremely focused "ray of death" that they emit.

Pointing it at you, or turning it down and asking for the FOH guy to give you a little of your guitar in your monitor mix might help.
 
Tremonti said:
What should I do to get the sound I need at lower volumes?
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Uhh, learn to play at lower volumes, and tweak your settings for that purpose. We all have to grow up some time. There's no time like the present, I always say....
 
Ahh...Jay it's not about "growing up".....amps sound better at a certain volume.... I just built a plexi shield at Lowes for $40.....should help with direction and beaming certain area's of the audience.

Running a power amp at full on doesnt mean my volumes are ridiculous....if I ran it full on with the Axe Fx cranked...then yes it would be ear splitting.

My opinion...TUBE POWER AMPS SOUND BEST WHEN RUNNING AT FULL LEVELS. My Axe is set for 1 o'clock on input and output.
 
Tremonti said:
Ahh...Jay it's not about "growing up".....amps sound better at a certain volume.... I just built a plexi shield at Lowes for $40.....should help with direction and beaming certain area's of the audience.

Running a power amp at full on doesnt mean my volumes are ridiculous....if I ran it full on with the Axe Fx cranked...then yes it would be ear splitting.

My opinion...TUBE POWER AMPS SOUND BEST WHEN RUNNING AT FULL LEVELS. My Axe is set for 1 o'clock on input and output.
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Keep the power amp cranked and lower the Axe's volume.
It will sound exactly the same, just quieter.
Putting a plexi-glass shield around your cabinet will change the sound for the worse a lot more.
 
My band mates aren't the ones really complaining...some audience friends say they can't hear the volcalist as much so he has to turn up which raises feedback issues. The singer has in ear monitors and can hear himself fine...my issue is more directionsal than anything....the plexi should suffice.....either that or put the amp close to me facing back.
 
Tremonti said:
Ahh...Jay it's not about "growing up".....
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Yes, it is ultimately about exactly that. As a musician progresses and matures, (s)he will come to realize a couple things:

1. Like life, hearing is precious. Without hearing, there is no music. Damaging your hearing destroys your ability to hear those very subtleties that so many "tone snobs" claim to cherish. I'd say that's worth a moment's reflection....

2. Musical value and beauty are unrelated to loudness. A powerful message does not need to be shouted.

amps sound better at a certain volume....
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"Better" is subjective, and your gross generalization is incorrect.

Running a power amp at full on doesnt mean my volumes are ridiculous....My opinion...TUBE POWER AMPS SOUND BEST WHEN RUNNING AT FULL LEVELS.
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You're missing something very important: there is no difference between running the power amp levels low/Axe levels high vs. the other way around, if you're producing the same volume in both cases. The power amp is being driven equally hard either way.

There is a very common misconception that the level control on a power amp has anything to do with the power output or "tone" of the amp. It does not. The level control only alters the net voltage amplification between input and output. Turn down the level control and feed the amp a hotter signal to compensate, and the power amp's sound will not change.

Either you're trying to get some power tube breakup, or you're not. If you are not, then turn down. The power amp's tonality will not change with volume. Only your hearing will change (and it will survive much longer if you turn down). If you are looking for power amp drive and your present rig is too loud in its "sweet spot," then you need either a lower-power amp or a power attenuator.
 
Tremonti said:
.... I just built a plexi shield at Lowes for $40.....should help with direction and beaming certain area's of the audience.
Click to expand...

I know a lot of guys use plexiglass shields on guitar cabinets but I don't understand the concept. Maybe it's my pea brain but those sound waves need to go somewhere and it seems there would be a lot of activity in the area between a really loud transducer and a hard, smooth surface. :|
 
joegold said:
Tremonti said:
Ahh...Jay it's not about "growing up".....amps sound better at a certain volume.... I just built a plexi shield at Lowes for $40.....should help with direction and beaming certain area's of the audience.

Running a power amp at full on doesnt mean my volumes are ridiculous....if I ran it full on with the Axe Fx cranked...then yes it would be ear splitting.

My opinion...TUBE POWER AMPS SOUND BEST WHEN RUNNING AT FULL LEVELS. My Axe is set for 1 o'clock on input and output.
Click to expand...

Keep the power amp cranked and lower the Axe's volume.
It will sound exactly the same, just quieter.
Putting a plexi-glass shield around your cabinet will change the sound for the worse a lot more.
Click to expand...


I don't think that is correct. Whether you lower the axe-fx volume or use the volume on the amp, you are attenuating the signal before the power tubes. It sounds like the 2:90 is not the amp for tremonti unless he wants to use an attenuator. A much lower powered amp would give poweramp saturation at a lower volume.
 
You mentioned in the 2nd post you werent looking for power amp distortion so much as you were looking for THAT sound when running higher volumes which would indcate you like the sound of poweramp distortion.

Also if your running the Axe output at the 1 o'clock position unless you have the volume levels in the blocks way down it has to ripping loud. If they are turned down then the front end of the Mesa is not going to be hit hard enough to be pushed into distortion.

I think if you tweek the poweramp settings in the Axe, a little less gain and more master to simm your poweramp distortion, turn down the Axe and tilt your cabs upword you should be able to achieve the same thing without all the volume.

It's all an experimentation thing, keep working with it and you will find what your looking for.
 
Tremonti, don't you think you could sacrifice a little of your tone to save the rest of your band and audience's hearing and enjoyment? Don't be that guy Tremonti. Anyway, you're not going to be losing anything just by turning it down some. I use a Mesa fifty/fifty power amp and I never go above 4. The tone really only starts to thin out when I put it in low power mode.

Running a 2:90 at full volume.... wow, just wow.o_O
 
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