Getting rid of fuzz behind chugging

[stereotactic]

no, most high gain amps, the power amp adds little compression, they are meant to be high headroom so they don't. they are all about preamp gain. not to say they can't....but if you look at any high gain set up the MV is kept so low that's adding as little compression or coloration as possible.

I understand your point, but compression is by its nature mostly used in a subtle way, and not meant to be heard as an effect in the same way as say, a chorus.

Only in hifi do we find tube amp designs which strive for maximum headroom and minimal coloration. In musical instrument tube amplification applications, the soft compression of a tube output stage is an integral part of the sound to the point that people prefer the compression and coloration characteristics of particular tubes and output stage designs.

When I turn up my JCM 800 MV I stop as soon as I hear the output stage starting to work/compress and the output level flattening out. I then back off the MV till I hear the right/subtle compression on a palm mute and less on single notes. Power tube compression, like tape compression, is a subtle and nuanced thing that manages to enhance harmonic content and control dynamics among other things, all at the same time. It's why we all play electric guitar, because we like those colorations.

I posed my first question to the OP in order to understand the idea behind compressing the signal before the preamp and poweramp have a chance to do their various compression things...

 

[Rex]

In musical instrument tube amplification applications, the soft compression of a tube output stage is an integral part of the sound to the point that people prefer the compression and coloration characteristics of particular tubes and output stage designs.

This.

For high-gain tones, the master volume sweet spot is usually a point at which you’re just starting to overdrive the power amp. At that point, there’s enough power-amp distortion to add some meat and liveliness to the tone, but not so much that it farts out. Without any power-amp compression/distortion at all, even a brootalz tone can sound sterile and one-dimensional — some would say it “sounds digital.”

 

[skracus]

That doesn't sound normal to me. I have patches with a lot of gain, and they dont do that.

I agree. Sounds like EMI sizzle in the background or a funky ground to my ear.

 

[Jono Bacon]

I agree. Sounds like EMI sizzle in the background or a funky ground to my ear.

So, I modified the patch and it sounds less fizzy, but this is it now with the compression and filter disabled:



I have also attached the patch. Would love if you could download and let me know if you hear any background fizz.

 

[Rex]

So, I modified the patch and it sounds less fizzy, but this is it now with the compression and filter disabled...

Big improvement.

 

[Jono Bacon]

Big improvement.

Sorry, @Rex, I realized I think I was playing too fast to hear the problem. Here it is when I speed up and slow down:



As you can hear, when I slow down this fuzz in the background can be heard. I have the same issue with another guitar too.

Does anyone else get this with the patch?

 

[Rex]

Sorry, @Rex, I realized I think I was playing too fast to hear the problem. Here it is when I speed up and slow down:



As you can hear, when I slow down this fuzz in the background can be heard. I have the same issue with another guitar too.

Does anyone else get this with the patch?

I get no fuzz when I load up your patch. I noticed you have the noise gate threshold and ratio cranked way up. Try this:

1) Back the threshold all the way down to OFF. What happens to the fuzz?

2) Now unplug your guitar cord from the Axe III. Now what happens to the fuzz?

 

[Jono Bacon]

I get no fuzz when I load up your patch. I noticed you have the noise gate threshold and ratio cranked way up. Try this:

1) Back the threshold all the way down to OFF. What happens to the fuzz?

2) Now unplug your guitar cord from the Axe III. Now what happens to the fuzz?

Cheers, @Rex, for taking the time to help.

When I dial the threshold down I get this:



Seems to get rid of it.

I also noticed with the threshold all the way down, when I move my guitar nearer my laptop, I hear more fuzz. I suspect that must be the source.

When I unplug my guitar from the Axe with the threshold down I hear nothing.

Is there anything I can buy to get rid of noise environmental noise such as better guitar cords or something else?

 

[Rex]

I also noticed with the threshold all the way down, when I move my guitar nearer my laptop, I hear more fuzz. I suspect that must be the source...When I unplug my guitar from the Axe with the threshold down I hear nothing.

This is key. You have interference getting into your guitar, from your laptop and possibly from other sources, too. With Threshold turned all the way down to OFF, you should hear pretty much constant noise, even when not playing anything. (One other possibility is interference getting in through your guitar cord, so try leaving it plugged into your Axe but unplugged from your guitar—again, with the Threshold all the way OFF.)

 

[Rex]

Also, if you want to tighten up those chugs, back off a bit on the Master Volume. You're driving the power amp sim pretty hard. Raise Level to compensate for the lower volume.

 

[Nahtanis]

Cheers, @Rex, for taking the time to help.

When I dial the threshold down I get this:



Seems to get rid of it.

I also noticed with the threshold all the way down, when I move my guitar nearer my laptop, I hear more fuzz. I suspect that must be the source.

When I unplug my guitar from the Axe with the threshold down I hear nothing.

Is there anything I can buy to get rid of noise environmental noise such as better guitar cords or something else?

I had a very similar problem. Check this video to see how I was able to solve it.



I bought a Rocktron Hush 2x and it has gotten rid of all my EMI pickup buzz noise.

http://www.rocktron.com/hush-2x.html

I have it routed before the Axe FX3, and also in the FX loop between the amp and the cab, or between the drive and amp blocks. Before I did this I was having to run the gate at a super high threshold and ratio. Now I am able to play and I rarely even use the gate. Also the Rocktron Hush is not really a gate, it is more of a noise remover.

Before I discovered this I went out and bought some Mogami Gold cables. They were slightly quieter, but cost like $100 each.

 

[skracus]

So, I modified the patch and it sounds less fizzy, but this is it now with the compression and filter disabled:



I have also attached the patch. Would love if you could download and let me know if you hear any background fizz.

I’ll load the patch tonight but it seems Rex confirmed the EMI noise I described doesn’t occur for him with the same patch. The worst culprit in my experience is led lighting. I have a bunch of Phillips Hue lighting in my studio and if I’m within 3-4’ I hear that EMI sizzle. It’s easy to detect. Just unplug tha cable from your guitar while leaving the other end plugged in to your Axe-Fx. Wave the guitar end of the cable around your room and listen. If you have interference you’ll very likely find it. You can wave your guitar around plugged in as well but it’s easier with just a cable obviously. All that said it could very well be coming from something else. If it’s lighting like in my case just remember with the Hue lighting turning them off with the app still leaves them powered on. Remove power to verify. In my case I’m able to be far enough away that it doesn’t create an issue for me but if I get close enough it sounds just like the noise in your clip.

 

[Andrew Male]

Too much gain bro.

 

[Jono Bacon]

I bought a Rocktron Hush 2x and it has gotten rid of all my EMI pickup buzz noise.

Very cool. The video certainly makes a compelling case for this resolving this issue.

I know a lot of people use Furman power conditioners. Does anyone use one to address this EMI issue and does it work?

 

[hippietim]

Very cool. The video certainly makes a compelling case for this resolving this issue.

I know a lot of people use Furman power conditioners. Does anyone use one to address this EMI issue and does it work?

Most of them claim to help address EMI. YMMV of course. I have a Furman Power Factor rackmount unit and it's made a big difference with noise in some places we've played over the years. They are not cheap but I've been using it for years.

 

[Bakerman]

What were your gate's attack and release times?

The original clip sounds like the type of distortion that can happen on the Axe II with intelligent gate type and both times set too low. If using a fast attack like 1-3 ms, try setting release to at least 100 ms.

Your last clip sounds like strings beyond nut/bridge or trem springs are ringing louder than any external noise source as notes decay. Have you done anything to mute those things (whatever applies) on your guitar?

 

[Nahtanis]

Most of them claim to help address EMI. YMMV of course. I have a Furman Power Factor rackmount unit and it's made a big difference with noise in some places we've played over the years. They are not cheap but I've been using it for years.

Yeah I also use a Furman power conditioner and it does seem to help a little. But the Rockton Hush is what really killed the pickup noise. I think that a Furman is good if you have really dirty electricity mostly. Also I had cheap cables. Switching to Mogami gold cables helped a little, but at a steep price.