Getting natural feedback

xarkon

xarkon

Experienced
Spent a lot more time playing with the new toy tonight. I have to say that I am really impressed with the way it sounds. In fact, after playing the Axe for a couple hours, plugged into my Mesa LSS - and thought - wow, this doesn't sound as good. (Of course, comparing apples to oranges in amp setups, etc so not completely fair.)

One of the things I have noticed, though, with the Axe (as well as Eleven Rack) is the greater difficulty in getting a nice natural harmonic feedback. I can push the guitar close to the Mesa speaker and get a nice natural feedback tone, sometimes at the fundamental or sometimes at a harmonic.

But with the Axe (and Eleven) - playing through a PA - I tried the same things with our floor monitors (Mackie C300s) and tend to just get squeal.

Any tips here?

TIA.

Dave
 
xarkon said:
Spent a lot more time playing with the new toy tonight. I have to say that I am really impressed with the way it sounds. In fact, after playing the Axe for a couple hours, plugged into my Mesa LSS - and thought - wow, this doesn't sound as good. (Of course, comparing apples to oranges in amp setups, etc so not completely fair.)

One of the things I have noticed, though, with the Axe (as well as Eleven Rack) is the greater difficulty in getting a nice natural harmonic feedback. I can push the guitar close to the Mesa speaker and get a nice natural feedback tone, sometimes at the fundamental or sometimes at a harmonic.

But with the Axe (and Eleven) - playing through a PA - I tried the same things with our floor monitors (Mackie C300s) and tend to just get squeal.

Any tips here?

TIA.

Dave
Click to expand...
Volume REALLY helps :)
It could be the noise gate preventing the feedback, you could lower or turn that off or lower it.
Your PA may be phase reversed as well which might be changing the way your guitar feedsback up close. You can try setting the phase reverse on the output of the Axe-fx.

The Axe-fx definitely can get nice blooming natural feedback (easily). I can get it through my 8" studio monitors a low levels. I just saw Dweezil Zappa getting some incredible feedback playing through the Atomic wedges.
 
Java said it well, more volume and less noise gate.
Actually this noise gate might be even more important here,
when you plug direct into your amp you are used to some noise by default at high gain settings.
With AxeFx you can have noise free sound at any time using noise gate
but it does kill feedback, BIG time.
And ofc, more volume won't hurt. ;)
 
People seem to assume this some magic voodoo or something.

It's simple physics. You need enough volume, in the proper frequencies, to excite the strings/guitar to vibrate in a sympathetic way.
 
A friend and I noticed something curious regarding this recently - we were demoing a Fratomic wedge and an FBT Verve 12 Ma side by side.....same guitar, same patches on the AXE - musical feedback was effortless via the Fratomic, not so via the FBT. No idea why....I figured it may have actually been some Fratomic voodoo.... :)
 
jjb said:
A friend and I noticed something curious regarding this recently - we were demoing a Fratomic wedge and an FBT Verve 12 Ma side by side.....same guitar, same patches on the AXE - musical feedback was effortless via the Fratomic, not so via the FBT. No idea why....I figured it may have actually been some Fratomic voodoo.... :)
Click to expand...

Those monitors are not the same and therefor they don't react the same on feedback, that's pretty logical to me.
And maybe you had less volume on FBT as well, could be...
 
some tweeters generate a lot of electric or magnetic fields
the air (sound) pressure is what gives good feedback sounds
I get nasty feedback standing behind (!) our pa system
in front of it and not too close it's ok
 
Muris_Varajic said:
jjb said:
A friend and I noticed something curious regarding this recently - we were demoing a Fratomic wedge and an FBT Verve 12 Ma side by side.....same guitar, same patches on the AXE - musical feedback was effortless via the Fratomic, not so via the FBT. No idea why....I figured it may have actually been some Fratomic voodoo.... :)
Click to expand...

Those monitors are not the same and therefor they don't react the same on feedback, that's pretty logical to me.
And maybe you had less volume on FBT as well, could be...
Click to expand...


Volumes on both monitors were the same.....several patches were demoed....always using the same guitar......Fratomic always seemed to feedback effortlessly.

"No idea why....Fratomic voodoo...." was just a lame attempt at humor :) on my part following Scott Peterson's post.

Scott Peterson said:
People seem to assume this some magic voodoo or something.

It's simple physics. You need enough volume, in the proper frequencies, to excite the strings/guitar to vibrate in a sympathetic way.
Click to expand...

My intended point to the OP was it may be as simple as trying his AXE out with a different monitor system.
 
All good here. A touch more volume, cut down the gate slightly, nirvana.

The squeal problem seems to be the horn in the Mackie C300 - need to be careful, if I push the guitar toward the monitor, to stay away from that horn.

Thanks for the replies.

Dave
 
jjb said:
Muris_Varajic said:
jjb said:
A friend and I noticed something curious regarding this recently - we were demoing a Fratomic wedge and an FBT Verve 12 Ma side by side.....same guitar, same patches on the AXE - musical feedback was effortless via the Fratomic, not so via the FBT. No idea why....I figured it may have actually been some Fratomic voodoo.... :)
Click to expand...

Those monitors are not the same and therefor they don't react the same on feedback, that's pretty logical to me.
And maybe you had less volume on FBT as well, could be...
Click to expand...


Volumes on both monitors were the same.....several patches were demoed....always using the same guitar......Fratomic always seemed to feedback effortlessly.

"No idea why....Fratomic voodoo...." was just a lame attempt at humor :) on my part following Scott Peterson's post.

[quote="Scott Peterson":1vo3yb4w]People seem to assume this some magic voodoo or something.

It's simple physics. You need enough volume, in the proper frequencies, to excite the strings/guitar to vibrate in a sympathetic way.
Click to expand...

My intended point to the OP was it may be as simple as trying his AXE out with a different monitor system.[/quote:1vo3yb4w]

Ahh, sorry, I misunderstood your reply, my english sucks as always. :D
 
I've had trouble with getting desirable feedback as well. In general, turning the gain and volume up, and noise gate threshold down does help... but I think there's more to it than that when running FRFR through a monitor. Used to be I could turn slightly towards my cab and get some really nice feedback. When running through monitor horns the feedback seems to be very fussy about position. An inch or two back or forward from the horn may dictate the presence of feedback.
 
Rich G. said:
I've had trouble with getting desirable feedback as well. In general, turning the gain and volume up, and noise gate threshold down does help... but I think there's more to it than that when running FRFR through a monitor. Used to be I could turn slightly towards my cab and get some really nice feedback. When running through monitor horns the feedback seems to be very fussy about position. An inch or two back or forward from the horn may dictate the presence of feedback.
Click to expand...

Yep exactly the same problem here. I really wish i could overcome this issue.
Someone noted in this thread that the fratomic was much easier to coax controlled musical feedback from than std fr speakers, i wonder if this has anything to do with the tweeter setting on the fratomic, i suspect turning the tweeter down would make it easier to get a more guitar amp like feedback (no tweeter squealing unmusical feedback being produced), it seems to me that the tweeter in most fr systems does have some effect on the ability to achieve guitar amp like feedback.
I think an fr solution with a midi switchable tweeter kill setting would be great, then the tweeter could be engaged for full range tones such as acoustic/piezo or synths & switched off for guitar amp tones where controlled sweet musical feedback is desired on a per patch basis.
Or could it be at all possible that axe-fx units might vary somewhat from unit to unit, as there seems to be quite a few people stating in this thread that they have no trouble achieving natural controlled feedback whilst others like myself have had quite some trouble.
 
xrist04 said:
Try the phase-reversal trick.
Click to expand...

Yep tried that 18 months ago when i first got the axe but alas it did not help.

It's a factor of playing through an amp that i have always gotten alot of satisfaction from, you know that feeling you get when you fret a note so very lightly then slowly turn the volume knob of the guitar up and shortly after beautiful singing harmonic controlled feedback sustain surrounds you....mmmm good stuff!

Anyway I spent some more time on this tonight, i went back to scratch & tried using one of the lovely lead presets in bank A, I lowered the gate to almost nothing and CRANKED my fr up real loud, still no luck, i could almost get there on the unwound strings but not a chance on the wound strings with single note lines, i didn't even try chords because i prefer single note feedback.
Using my real amps i never had trouble getting feedback on nearly any note in any position on the fretboard. Also playing the axe through poweramp and guitar cabs was more successful for this.

It seems on my FR that the note gets to that point where it would normally go into nice natural feedback sustain but then hollows out in the mids, gets kind of woofy in the lows, and then dies out, it's almost like there is some limiting or feedback supression kicking in on the speaker, i cannot find anything on my FR that suggests this might be happening (wharfedale pro titan 12), but that doesn't mean it isn't i guess, but it is the same situation through my studio monitors ESI near08's as well.

Now guys please don't take these comments the wrong way, i am not saying that there is something wrong with the axe or that it doesn't sound real, it's a great sounding unit no doubt and i love mine, all i am saying is that I am having trouble achieving that aspect of the playing experience and until i get it sorted i won't be 100% where i want to be with the axe, i am totally willing to concede that i may be doing something incorrectly, and i am truly hoping that somebody out there can help get me on the right path to controlled feedback sustain glory through FR but at the moment for me it seems like going through a poweramp & cab is the only solution.

I am wondering if the person that mentions earlier in this thread that they are able to get controlled singing feedback through their studio monitors at reasonable volumes might be able to record a clip of this to see if we are on the same track and post a patch to see if i can replicate on my system, if everyone else can get it via FR then darn it i want it too :)

Any advice is much appreciated
 
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