Getting a sound that will cut through the mix? I'm struggling!

Dealmaker

Inspired
OK - I love my Axe FXII - when I play on my own - I can coax some wonderful sounds and tones out of it.....

...however whenever I play with the band at practice - or at a gig....I am really struggling to get it to cut through the band - it just gets lost in the cacophony of sound that the band produces and I really cant hear myself unless its a quieter piece.

I'm not sure if its the AXE at fault, my set up pre-sets (many of which are simply stock pre-sets) , or the fact I'm using an RCF NX12SMA FRFR monitor to project "my" sound - or all of these.

The other day I got a new Marshall Jubilee re-issue, with matching 4 x 12 cab - and played with it at practice a bit - what a difference - I could hear every note ! And for the first time I've considered ditching the FXII as the connivence is worth nothing if I can't be heard......

Any advice for trying to find a slot in the audio spectrum that will allow me to hear what I'm playing??
 
Hi Dealmaker,

Why not attempt to emulate the sound you are getting from the marshall with the Axe FX? Set them up together ans see how close you can get, then try with the band.
One thing I have been guilty of in the past is creating my sounds with the Axe by myself, and adding too much gain, reverb, delay - you name it!... sounds fantastic by it'self - but in a band setting, it just gets lost. Not sure if you have lots of that stuff going on, but try (with the axe) what you have with the marshal - IE; amp and cab only... then take it from there.

Pauly
 
I am really struggling to get it to cut through the band - I'm using an RCF NX12SMA FRFR monitor to project "my" sound - or all of these.
The other day I got a new Marshall Jubilee re-issue, with matching 4 x 12 cab - what a difference - I could hear every note ! Any advice for trying to find a slot in the audio spectrum that will allow me to hear what I'm playing??

AFAIK a Marshall stacks are all about coupling and moving air.
The total combined speaker surface area of a 4x 12 Marshall cab moves a LOT more air and bass than a 1x 12" can, compression driver or not. So it's not really fair to compare these.
Try using your AxeFx with 4x RCF NX12SMA's (4x 12") and see how much cut and detail you can get 8), that's essentially what you are doing with the Marshall... :encouragement:
 
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if I can give you a really good idea of what's a perfect " cutting in the band band sound "
a jcm800 with Marshall greenback is the basic of it.
try it, don't tweek it at first. just set both up in a preset and leave as is.
 
Push the mids.

Two simple ways are to use the GEQ block post amp / cab or the GEQ in the amp block.

Change the GEQ type to 3 band console type. And push the mids up 6db.

Watch your levels for clipping as boosting the mids will increase the preset level.

If the pushed mids sound too harsh, back off on the mids and cut the bass and treble: bass -1, mids +3, treble -1
 
I ran into the same thing once in a band when I had my quad preamp and 2 4x12 boogies.. by myself and with the band all was groovy, another guitarist came in with a slash half stack and I disappeared. It's not FRFR to blame, it's just the frequencies that are pronounced with certain amps.
 
Definitely Fletcher-Munson, I'd bet a hundred.

I don't have time now but I'll edit this tomorrow and explain. In the mean time OP, search Fletcher Munson in the search bar on this forum.
 
Each member needs their own slice of the EQ spectrum, together it results in a full pie.

Guitarists always complain Marshalls through V30s sound too midrangey, EXACTLY, that's the point, to be heard in the mix.

You can slice off everything below 100hz and above 6mhz.

When you are lost in the mix it's because you are stepping on one another's space. Slim down your range and then you'll pop.
 
OP, have you gigged with this setup yet, and if so, did the FOH sound mixer complain that he couldn't get you to sit properly "in the mix"? You have a Full Range monitor system, so why not take advantage of it and orient it in a position so that it will melt your face if you want it to, such as on a speaker stand at face level? Even if you may not have the ideal frequency spectrum for your sound to cut through the overall mix (something that you DO need to address), there's absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to hear yourself adequately well. Or perhaps the blend of the band in general needs work, or you need to treat the practice space, or do something about the drummer (hee hee), etc., etc.

I work with a guitarist who uses AxeFXII and single 12" FRFR monitor in a hard rock/metal format and we play fairly loud. Absolutely no problem hearing him in the mix, rhythm or lead patches, and he's not even close to maxing out the speaker volume. Or, maybe you just do need more beef to keep up.

Just a couple thoughts.
 
When all of the frequencies are being pumped, the volume war is inevitable... It's not necessarily how loud you play, it's where you fit in the mix that matters. A raging high gain amp doesn't leave a whole lot of space.
 
Each member needs their own slice of the EQ spectrum, together it results in a full pie.

Guitarists always complain Marshalls through V30s sound too midrangey, EXACTLY, that's the point, to be heard in the mix.

You can slice off everything below 100hz and above 6mhz.

When you are lost in the mix it's because you are stepping on one another's space. Slim down your range and then you'll pop.
Luke has it right. I had a real problem with a band setting also.
At rehearsals could hardly hear the singer or me, because of other guitarist volume BUT mostly the bassist... as the bass was the biggest frequency eater in the band . My beautiful bottom end(LOL) hand mutes chugs, just disappeared when the bassist would turn up.
The passive 5 band eq is your best friend in this situation.
Inherently, the less bass you have, the more your mids will pop. Listen to your bass players sound parameters and adjust to get out of his freq box first.
Ask your bassist to tighten up his top end around 150 -200 a little, -2 to -4 db Then you roll off 125hz down -2 to -4 DB on the 5 band passive eq(more if your a really loud band)

Then work with your mids ...to adjust your projection. +2 to +4 db should do it.
. Then have a null filter set as a volume boost for prominent sections or leads. +3 to +5 DB, depending if its a rock or metal tune......Boom........ problem addressed
 
i have no issue cutting live...but you have to tweak intentionally for cut...often times what sounds great by itself gets lost in any mix.
 
Get a sound that cuts. Try Pete thorn's presets. He's got the perfect ear for hearing that brash cutting midrange. Get your ears tuned for that frequency spectrum and dial your sounds accordingly.
 
Agree with the above - work on sculpting your tone so that it cuts through the mix. The result may be a tone that sounds average on it's own, yet sounds full in a band context.
 
OK - I love my Axe FXII - when I play on my own - I can coax some wonderful sounds and tones out of it.....

...however whenever I play with the band at practice - or at a gig....I am really struggling to get it to cut through the band - it just gets lost in the cacophony of sound that the band produces and I really cant hear myself unless its a quieter piece.

Any advice for trying to find a slot in the audio spectrum that will allow me to hear what I'm playing??

I had precisely the same problem. Sounded great in my home studio, vanished at rehearsals and gigs.

Is was a recording engineer who pointed out what others have suggested above. My live patches are completely different to my "home/studio" ones. Far simpler, less gain, fewer effects, a GEQ before the amp and a simple 2 x 12 cab IR.

Result: Loud as fuck
 
AFAIK a Marshall stacks are all about coupling and moving air.
The total combined speaker surface area of a 4x 12 Marshall cab moves a LOT more air and bass than a 1x 12" can, compression driver or not. So it's not really fair to compare these.
A single 12" PA speaker can move move pretty much just as much air as a 4x12 guitar cabinet. The cones of guitar speakers don't travel nearly as far as the cones of PA speakers.

There are differences between FRFR and "amp-in-the-room" sound, but quantity of air moved isn't one of them.
 
Try the 'Master Of Reality' preset for a heavy sound that cuts through, or the 'Master Of Puppets' preset for even more cut through. They both jump out of a mix real nice.
 
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