Getting a drummer to play in time

You could try recording first the bass/guitar with the metronome (or a simple drum track), and use that track as a base on his closed-headphones when recording the whole band.
 
I've had to set up 'drum tracks' for some drummers I've worked with who just cannot do the click track thing.

Basically, I tricked them to playing to a click by creating basic drum loops for them to 'jam to' while they record their part.

This hasn't always been 100% successful, but its worked more often than not.
 
I had this problem once. I sorta solved it by presenting some recordings of a performance, then having a talk about laid back presence of mind tempo control. I reinforced this with some coaching and the humorous words "lounge... chairs.... three... four" as a count off once in awhile.

Adrenalin is a monster though.
 
Instead of a click track, use a very simplistic electronic drumbeat.

But in my experience, I've played with a lot of drummers for a lot of years and seen this a lot of times. Nothing is going to help. You either have it or you don't. If you don't have it, then you have to work hard to get it. If he's not willing to do that then he won't ever get it.
 
fcs101 said:
Developing the ability to listen to others (or a click track/metronome) while you play is a skill that's got to be developed.

W/o having met this guy it just sounds like the classic case of someone with "tunnel vision". It takes effort to break out of that and really play with others. The drummer has the luxury of being the "heart beat" so they can often get away with it (though causing frustration to others).
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I’m sure you are right. And I was struggling to communicate what I meant on something I was likely over complicating. My suggestion was based on a large number of concert bootleg recordings of IEM feeds where I was able to hear what the drummer had in his ear as compared to what was in the singer’s and guitarist’s IEM mix. It just sounds more natural than just a shaker or click sound. Either way, your point holds true.
 
Unless you're working with a sequence track I'd live with it. Let the music speed up. Embrace it. As the song gets more intense perhaps speeding up - a little - is great. Otherwise you'd have to get him to improve his time. But really there's NO REASON to have to use a click UNLESS you're working with a sequence. If that's the case then program the sequence with bass, keyboards, guitars so he's actually playing with a "band."
 
henryrobinett said:
Unless you're working with a sequence track I'd live with it. Let the music speed up. Embrace it. As the song gets more intense perhaps speeding up - a little - is great. Otherwise you'd have to get him to improve his time. But really there's NO REASON to have to use a click UNLESS you're working with a sequence. If that's the case then program the sequence with bass, keyboards, guitars so he's actually playing with a "band."
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I don't know, my band always sounds a lot tighter with a click and we don't use a sequencer (maybe sometimes but 2 songs out of 70 tops). The click is great for those long spaces where after a few bars of silence everybody needs to come in at the exact time. When we didn't have the click it was okay, but not as tight.

And we were also able to play with more feeling, because we didn't have to concentrate so much on where the other musicians were landing. The click just made it easy for us to relax and get into a groove, feeling confident that everyone is finding the right pockets and not stepping on each other.
 
chucma said:
I don't know, my band always sounds a lot tighter with a click and we don't use a sequencer (maybe sometimes but 2 songs out of 70 tops). The click is great for those long spaces where after a few bars of silence everybody needs to come in at the exact time. When we didn't have the click it was okay, but not as tight.

And we were also able to play with more feeling, because we didn't have to concentrate so much on where the other musicians were landing. The click just made it easy for us to relax and get into a groove, feeling confident that everyone is finding the right pockets and not stepping on each other.
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Obviously it depends on what you want to do and what you want to achieve. My drummers play well with a click, but I rarely use one. Our time is great. We don't NEED a click to stay in time or tempo. And sometimes there's a natural momentum to speed just a little. It adds rather than being mechanically dectated to by a machine. But if your time is not good or inconsistent then you should learn to use a click or just secure your internal clock.
 
If my drummer speeds up, i give him a hand gesture to relax. Generally works.
Not trying to hurt any feelings, just let him know he's pushing a little to hard.

That said, I thought I saw a drum throne attachment at one point that made the throne 'thump' to a click.
Seemed to be a good solution to help drummers 'feel' the metronome and lock into it.
 
pauly said:
HI all,

Ok - we all have our 'things', so lets avoid 'just use a click track'.
I play with a drummer that I like - He's a good bloke, hits the drums hard, I've known him for 100 years, and he's not let me down.
He does, however refuse to play with a click track (actually, he just can't)... It sucks all the fun out of music for him, and he spends so much energy trying to match the clock, it all just falls apart. I'm a little tired of listening back to recordings and being unable to use them due to tempo fluctuations.
So - We play without the click... but geeze we speed up so much!
I've tried a click track - no
I've tried a light flashing in time.. No
I've tried an echo in the monitors in time... not really.

Any ideas how I can setup the studio to get a solid tempo while we play?

Thanks.
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Some drummers just can't do it effectively. Neil Peart hated click tracks a refused as well. Many of the Rush songs change tempos slightly so... Dave Grohl learned to play with the click, but still doesn't care for them. He would probably need to repack his technique in order to do it and that may not be in the cards... The only thing I found that worked for resistant drummers was to meter a song with SD3 and then let them play to it and take out the SD3 drum track. It is not live but it is metered.
 
If you are doing covers, practice with the original recordings of the songs you play. Eventually it doesn't feel right if you don't play in time.

Add a midi instrument of some sort, a band I played covers in used midi for bass and you had to lock in, it doesn't wait on you.

A drummer friend once told me to never give a drummer a metronome, you might try that and see what happens? :)
 
I echo trying prerecording scratch tracks to a metronome. If that doesn't work, record together and point out where the tempo fluctuations commonly occur and try to address it verbally until you nail an acceptable take. I understand the frustration of a drummer who can't use a click or keep a steady tempo through a song. It is unfortunate because that is first and foremost the job of a drummer. And often the ones with the biggest timing issues have the worst aversion to actually acknowledging it. Good luck!
 
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pauly said:
Hi Bruce,
Sorry, I didn’t explain his playing correctly. I should have said “he plays the drums hard when it’s appropriate”.
Thanks
Pauly
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Everybody wants to throw your drummer under the bus and then run over him again, and all based
on a paragraph or two. And you started it. It's your fault, Pauly. :)

I have no real advice. Bonham sped up. Moon sped up. Nick Mason sped up. They all varied their tempo.
Wasn't a problem once upon a time----so long as we are not talking playing double time every time the
chorus comes around., ;)

My expectations are honestly degrading more and more with each passing year. I used to be
way too uptight when I was younger, and it created bad blood. I am no superhero of a musician and
I doubt I ever will be. If we speed up or slow down these days I just pretend we are Pink Floyd. :)

Have fun. Not everyone gets to play with other musicians these days.
 
la szum said:
Everybody wants to throw your drummer under the bus and then run over him again, and all based
on a paragraph or two. And you started it. It's your fault, Pauly. :)

I have no real advice. Bonham sped up. Moon sped up. Nick Mason sped up. They all varied their tempo.
Wasn't a problem once upon a time----so long as we are not talking playing double time every time the
chorus comes around., ;)

My expectations are honestly degrading more and more with each passing year. I used to be
way too uptight when I was younger, and it created bad blood. I am no superhero of a musician and
I doubt I ever will be. If we speed up or slow down these days I just pretend we are Pink Floyd. :)

Have fun. Not everyone gets to play with other musicians these days.
Click to expand...
I have a particular hardon for drummers who approach a drum set like they're swinging a sledgehammer. My ears ring and I'm never going to regain that hearing. Like any other musical instrument, its supposed to be played soft, loud and every dynamic in between. This is lost on many drummers (and guitar players too).

We just started playing to backing tracks, forcing us to play to a click. My drummer is the only one who gets the click in his monitor (he won't wear cans), so it gets washed out overall. I made the click a dynamic cowbell so its louder in loud parts, softer in soft parts. This is FORCING him to not only play in time, but play dynamically. After just a few rehearsals of this, he gets it. And it'll raise his skillset making him more valuable, our band better AND save the little left of my hearing and patience I have left.
 
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