Getting a drummer to play in time

[flageolet]

I enjoy a beer and a joint during rehearsing, but get irritated a lot if after 1 hour I'm still the only one with an instrument in his hands. Wasted rehearsals are better spent in a bar.

The social aspect of being in a band can be frustrating, even though I try to be empathic. Always lovely people, but so little focus.
The added disadvantage is it drives people away who actually want to make something worthwhile

 

[unix-guy]

We've used an app called LiveBPM during practice. It tells you what your current BPM plus it gives you a graph so you can see if things are speeding up.

I just purchased this app as it sounds like exactly what my band needs... And then I remembered that we are 100% direct with IEMs so hopefully I can somehow feed it audio instead of via the mic of my iphone or ipad.

 

[Rich G.]

I just purchased this app as it sounds like exactly what my band needs... And then I remembered that we are 100% direct with IEMs so hopefully I can somehow feed it audio instead of via the mic of my iphone or ipad.

My drummer has a little iPhone holder that holds it in the open area above the snare, but below Tom 1 & 2. It reliably picks up the tempo from the snare without a need for an external audio feed. You could probably put it just about anywhere and it would find the tempo. It's pretty good about that. You might have to adjust the window a bit if you'd rather see 80 BPM than 160 BPM, but that's about it.

 

[unix-guy]

My drummer has a little iPhone holder that holds it in the open area above the snare, but below Tom 1 & 2. It reliably picks up the tempo from the snare without a need for an external audio feed. You could probably put it just about anywhere and it would find the tempo. It's pretty good about that. You might have to adjust the window a bit if you'd rather see 80 BPM than 160 BPM, but that's about it.

Our drummer uses a ZenDrum and FatKat kick pedal... Maybe they will generate enough level to detect with.

If not, I could just send a feed from our IEM mixer to a small speaker.

 

[la szum]

Btw He has not only fallen off the chair, but he also fell off the stage as well.

Played with a drummer that drank way too much, and by the last few songs of the last set
was hanging on for dear life. You could see him trying so hard to fight the drunk. He didn't
make it. He fell face first into the drum set mid song.

Thank you and good night people!!!

 

[la szum]

For those who dislike rehearsal, IMO the task and joy of being a musician is to find/create something cool in all your musical moments -- full club, empty club, awesome acoustics, cavernous empty hanger, your favorite songs, the others, etc. I wouldn't want to show up to rehearsal expecting it to be a drag I wish I didn't have to go to. I'm there to find the magic thing and rock it, just like a gig. THAT is the main thing we're practicing, cultivating muscle/soul memory of, and strengthening the communal belief that we can do, maybe not to the very height every single night, but enough to be worth coming together for.
/hippie

Yes! It's true in sports, too. Coaches that suck all the joy out of a game by being a dick during practice get a worse performance
from his players during games than those who don't act like a jerk. This is just simple Psychology 101. How and why would it be
any different in a band with music?

I don't think it is. Practice how you want to play. If practice has no joy, then it is not automatically going to be turned on at a gig.

Also, fear of failure is a MASSIVE hangup. I have played with enough uptight assholes to know I never want to do it again. Sure,
sometimes you are backing someone up and it is their gig and you are an hired gun working for them as an artist. I just know
that the ones who treat other people poorly, and make rehearsal a chore, get the least of those around them. Meanwhile, those
who are laid back (while still getting the tasks accomplished) generate a collaborative and creative atmosphere that is so much
better for the musicians to play in, and the audience to eventually feed off of.

 

[la szum]

Btw He has not only fallen off the chair, but he also fell off the stage as well.

My other fave drunk drummer moment was when our drummer of Irish ancestry drank way too much
Hennessy at a St, Patrick's Day gig. Because everyone loved him and knew he was Irish he was sent more
shots than he could handle. By the 2nd set he was gone and in a chair on wheels being spun around on
the dance floor. I'll never forget the look of him with his head slumped down and people spinning that
poor bastard round and round.

Luckily we inquired in the crowd if anyone could play drums and sure enough some guy came up
and sat in the rest of the night for us. Made his night, and really made the gig much more fun and
enjoyable for everyone. I think it was the Luck of the Irish for sure!

 

[la szum]

I enjoy a beer and a joint during rehearsing, but get irritated a lot if after 1 hour I'm still the only one with an instrument in his hands. Wasted rehearsals are better spent in a bar.

The social aspect of being in a band can be frustrating, even though I try to be empathic. Always lovely people, but so little focus.
The added disadvantage is it drives people away who actually want to make something worthwhile

Man, it's a fine line to walk between treating it like a job (after you probably just came from a job during the day)
and remembering that music is for fun.

The guys I am playing with now I have known for 18 years. We have developed a good feel for one another. We all
still work, and when we rehearse sometimes it takes a minute for guys to decompress, depending on how their day
is going (we all have families/children at home, too!). A few of us show up early and shoot the shit so we can get that
out of the way. We also try and make it more like family as we often bring and share food to eat at some point
in the evening. I think the little things can go a long ways in creating a better atmosphere.

Hell, we are there doing the one thing we all wanted to do when we were kids---play music in a band!! That simple
truth gets overlooked way too often, if you ask me.

 

[levipeto]

My other fave drunk drummer moment was when our drummer of Irish ancestry drank way too much
Hennessy at a St, Patrick's Day gig. Because everyone loved him and knew he was Irish he was sent more
shots than he could handle. By the 2nd set he was gone and in a chair on wheels being spun around on
the dance floor. I'll never forget the look of him with his head slumped down and people spinning that
poor bastard round and round.

Luckily we inquired in the crowd if anyone could play drums and sure enough some guy came up
and sat in the rest of the night for us. Made his night, and really made the gig much more fun and
enjoyable for everyone. I think it was the Luck of the Irish for sure!

This reminds me of a story:
My friend had a gig with his wedding band and had drums, keys, bass, and guitar. They all sang.
Hungarian weddings last till the morning. Around 2 am, everyone had a great time, and my friend, the bass player, was doing his thing and noticed that the keyboard was quiet. So he turned towards the keyboard player to see what was up: He was not there. My buddy looks around, and the keyboardist is in the middle of the crowd, dancing his ass off. He decided in mid-song that he joins the party.

 

[Piing]

If all these fine ideas to play in time have failed, the only thing left to try is an electric dildo chair in sync with the beat

 

[fcs101]

Played with a drummer that drank way too much, and by the last few songs of the last set
was hanging on for dear life. You could see him trying so hard to fight the drunk. He didn't
make it. He fell face first into the drum set mid song.

Thank you and good night people!!!

I use a Beat Buddy and it has a 'Drunk Drummer' setting! You can even set the level of drunkness.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Yes! It's true in sports, too. Coaches that suck all the joy out of a game by being a dick during practice get a worse performance
from his players during games than those who don't act like a jerk. This is just simple Psychology 101. How and why would it be
any different in a band with music?

Sports is a good analogy, with one big exception: In sports you have a set # of games (and more to come if you finish those well enough.)
In music, the # of gigs and rehearsals isn't a set amount. When I was gigging, I wanted to get to the live shows as reasonably quickly as possible, since I'd much rather play to an audience, than in a garage. It's just so much fun, and starts to show a bit of (not much, but still) return for your time invested.
So I wanted rehearsals to be the time where we got the songs tight as a group, not the time in which individuals worked out their own parts. That's for home practice. And the drinking/smoking had to be kept to a minimum, because too much of either, and you're just delaying the time before you're ready to gig.
Now if gigs aren't the reason for your rehearsals, than by all means enjoy your time in the garage, as long as that "enjoyment" means essentially the same for everyone.

 

[stub]

Sometimes a band can have unspoken tempo "tensions" between players. I played a 5-month run of a show 6 shows per week, we did the whole run, all songs to a click. It was an amazing training-- I could hear when any of us "drifted" or "blurred" with the click and each other, and we all got very tight by the end of the run. Later shows that we did without click, we had solved most of our tempo tensions and were able to lock comfortably with each other.

Another band does shows with in-ears and clicks for all songs. We sound tighter and more in the pocket with a click. It's almost like we listen to each other so much that we slow down because of the distance between us. Anyone who thinks music can't groove with a click is talking about something else. I get it that music can sometimes have an ebb and flow. I also get it that music can speed up or slow down and some of that-- done tastefully-- can add something special. But to say that playing to a click is somehow too machine-like-- misses the point that tempo can be stable, but with swing, feel, phrasing, dynamics, accents and other qualities, it will not feel like a robot.

 

[Cam Heiliger]

Sports is a good analogy, with one big exception: In sports you have a set # of games (and more to come if you finish those well enough.)
In music, the # of gigs and rehearsals isn't a set amount. When I was gigging, I wanted to get to the live shows as reasonably quickly as possible, since I'd much rather play to an audience, than in a garage. It's just so much fun, and starts to show a bit of (not much, but still) return for your time invested.
So I wanted rehearsals to be the time where we got the songs tight as a group, not the time in which individuals worked out their own parts. That's for home practice. And the drinking/smoking had to be kept to a minimum, because too much of either, and you're just delaying the time before you're ready to gig.
Now if gigs aren't the reason for your rehearsals, than by all means enjoy your time in the garage, as long as that "enjoyment" means essentially the same for everyone.

This is a great point. All group and gig dependent. I have the most fun at our shows when we are tight and “on”. We get business done at rehearsal so that we can really enjoy, and be proud of, our gigs. That said, all groups are different, have different goals, and definitions of fun. If you’re all on the same page, you’ll be fine.

 

[DJD100]

Playing in time is mandatory for any serious musician (with or without a click etc), and it's a skill that needs to be learned as human's are not born with it.

So...

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

 

[RoshRoslin]

As a drummer myself. One of the biggest challenges with people being 'critical' of me playing in time is that there is never any communication before a musical situation about what kind of "time" would be best. For example, some bands I play drums in want it to be perfect, metronomic time. One church I play at, we use ableton for backing tracks etc, so obviously I have to be locked to the grid. Another project we use backing tracks as well, and I have to be locked to the click.

Other projects I play in have completely maleable time. We push the choruses, lay back on bridges etc. I have never felt once that I was "locked" to being perfectly in time, we definitely end the songs faster than we start with, but I never hear complaints from the band about it ever not feeling good. There's plenty of examples of this on record, from Earth Wind and Fire to the Stones to Zeppelin. It just happens.

Other projects, they say they want "metronomic" or "solid" time but the band definitely speeds up and slows down. Most drummers then have to make a choice: 1) Go with where the band is feeling it? 2) Hold it down and never move.

Most competent, solid drummers are forced make this choice over and over. I am constantly hearing the singer slowing down or speeding up on gigs. Obviously, I want to make sure I'm not playing faster so they can breathe for phrases etc.

The point is, you absolutely -need- to communicate with a drummer what type of feel you want. Human beings feel time in completely different ways, even if it "feels good". In rehearsals I always say "do you want me to just hold the tempo in this section or go with where everyone is feeling it". What may feel "in time" to you is definitely speeding up if you reference a metronome.

 

[Rex]

I was briefly in a cover band that played every song fast, thinking that they were adding "energy" to the song. It just sounded like we were in a hurry to finish the song.

 

[Piing]

Tempo modulation has always been part of interpretation and musical notation. But, as @DJD100 has stated, it is mandatory for any serious musician to learn to play a tempo, and change it only when required and with grace

A piacere	Tempo is at the pleasure or discretion of the performer. The same as ad libitum. Similar to rubato except rubato is the discretion of the conductor.
Accelerando (accel.)	Quickening; a gradual speeding up of the tempo
Ad libitum	Tempo is at the discretion of the performer. The same as a piacere. Similar to rubato except rubato is the discretion of the conductor.
Alla breve	Duple time with a half note as the unit; same as Cut time
Allargando (allarg.)	Broadening; sometimes interpreted as a combination of ritardando and crescendo
ancora	Still more; used generally with tempo indications, as ancora meno mosso (still more slowly)
A témpo	In tempo; reestablishes original speed after accelerando or ritardando
Cédez	French for poco ritardando; a slight holding back
Come Prima	As at first
Come Sopra	As above; much the same as come prima
Doppio movimento	Twice as fast; usually used in conjunction with Common time changing to Cut time
L'istesso tempo Lo stesso tempo	The same tempo, indicating that the beat remains constant when the meter changes as 2/4 to 6/8
Meno mosso Più lento	Less motion; slower. May be qualified by poco (a little less)
Più allegro Più animato Più mosso	faster
pressez	French term for "quicken"; same meaning as accelerando
Rallentando (rall.)	Same as ritardando; a gradual slowing-down of the tempo
Ritardando (ritard.)	Slowing down; a gradual holding-back of the tempo
Ritenuto (riten.)	Frequently confused with ritardando; means a sudden slowing-down, in contrast to the gradual holding-back of rallentando
Rubato	Litterally, to "rob" or steal the time values by holding-back or speeding up at will to color a phrase
stringendo (string.)	Pressing forward; sometimes erroneously interpreted as a combination of accelerando and crescendo
tempo giusto	In strict tempo (non-rubato)
tempo primo (tempo I°)	Original tempo
trattenuto (tratt.)	Holding back (same as rallentando) with the addition of a sustained quality (sostenuto)

 

[stub]

Seeing that list all in one place, it's interesting to note that we don't have nearly as much fun with tempo as there is to be had.

To +1 to what has been said many times, there is great value to learning to keep good time (for rock, pop, soul, hiphop, r&b, etc. etc.) and to play to a click to the point where it becomes effortless. This way, when the click is gone, you would actually have calibrated your time and would play your chosen tempo without being too tweaky.

 

[Stratoblaster]

I'm fortunate that I've been playing with a fantastic, disciplined, knowledgeable drummer in several different projects over the years. He can swing, lock a tempo down and hold it, adjust the timing on the fly if needed (usually to follow a singer at times), play dynamically and even quietly while not losing groove/feel, play to a click track without any issues, push and pull around the 'one' for feel, or reign people in when they wander. He has a great feel, and never sounds rigid and mechanical, even when playing with a click.

As a general rule I defer to where he may pull me slower/faster if I start a song too fast/slow when playing live, but if I feel his tempo is either a bit laggy or rushed at rehearsal he'll listen and check it out. We did that several times over rehearsals with two different bands this week so it works out for everyone.

He has a metronome gizmo-thing attached to the kit and has the tempos recorded for the tunes we do and that's been perfect...absolutely the ticket for getting the proper feel.