TSJMajesty
Fractal Fanatic
So you have been to a G3 concert!
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Getting a drummer to play in time
- Thread starter pauly
- Start date
lauke-lux
Fractal Fanatic
Totally agree to the fact that rehearsing with a clicktrack is killing a lot of feel. But there are limits. Our drummer suffered this problem for a while and he solued this by a lot of home exercice on patterns and rythms....with a click at home on the headphone.
I don't see though how one could decently record without a click. Or at least do a first take with a click, then (re)record the other instruments of the song and at last redo/overdub a drum track without the click transforming that to the main track later ? Eating up much time this way but at least this has the merit of converging to a mix of stable tempo and "spontaneous" sound.
DaveO
Fractal Fanatic
Yes I have, went to three of them back in the beginning tours, think my favorite was the one with Yngwie Malmsteen, Joe Satriani and I believe it was Steve Vai... Seen Vai sooo many times in Zappa, WS, Roth etc defiantly one exceptionally gifted guitarist. And you? HAve you seen them as well?
DaveO
Fractal Fanatic
if you google this subject some very gruesome pictures awaits your browser!
TSJMajesty
Fractal Fanatic
Same one you mentioned, in DC. YJM was amazing, but boring by the 3rd song. Conversely, Vai opened his set using a triple-neck, which was awesome in itself, but each subsequent song had my jaw dropping further to the floor. "You like that? Well, check this out!" He knew how to keep it interesting, and go further with each song. Satch was cool, but I'm not a big fan. Mainly went to see the other guys, and when they got to all 3 playing at the same time, during the trading-solos part, I was done. That cacophony of notes is just a big wank-fest, imo.
Bruce Sokolovic
Fractal Fanatic
I rehearse strictly covers these days. Any original material is written by me, for me and rarely sees the light of day.I am not going to speak for others---but at my age I am just happy to have some guys to play with. I have to
wonder if the "No compromising, ball-busters" commenting in this thread are actively playing with others right
now, or do too many people remember what it is like to hang with them.
Sorry.
I am, of course, kidding, but also want to be mindful that I am not 23, and I am not going to set the world on
fire with my original band, and the songs we are working on are not being held back from topping the Charts
by a drummer who sways up and down with his tempo from time to time.
Not saying anyone here is an asshole, but I sure have met my share of them, and damn if they don't suck the air
out of the room in the name of "getting it right," and think they need to know everyone else's part. It's a fine, fine
line between demanding perfection and being a blazing narcissist. Again, in my experience.... from having been the
asshole in the room, and from having to walk out on the asshole in the room.
I have ZERO desire to play a 40 year old song for the 9000th time again unless I’m being paid to do it. Thats why Im how I am for rehearsals. Let’s do it so we can STOP doing it and just rehearse to add new material every so often. There is nothing fun or social for me about a rehearsal. If I want to have fun with music, thats either at the gig or in front of my desk, my true happy place in the world where I can create terrible music to my hearts content.
I am however very easy to work with and very patient. The band had a problem coming in on the 1 after I play a figure of 7 (intro to Dude looks Like A Lady). We did it, did it some more, I suggested different strategies for counting and feeling where the 1 is. It took some time and some work but they got it. I dont need the best musicians in the world to work with. I do however need people who are willing to work when it’s time to work.
I understand folks who casually get together in the garage every Sunday, pop open a few beers and make some noise. Thats a beautiful thing, it just isn’t my thing.
Bruce Sokolovic
Fractal Fanatic
You know how?
SHIT TONS OF EDITING. “Wow, your drummer is dead on, he’s so solid….”
In my mind: “ and it only took me AN ENTIRE DAY to edit………”
Then the drummer and/or band will boast how they just “do it by feel” and dont use a click track. Meanwhile the original recording was like a greasy lasagna.
lauke-lux
Fractal Fanatic
With unexperienced musicians this can happen, but normally there's not that much editing on tempo issues but quite a bit work on mastering a cool drum and "copper" sound whatever that means to anybody.
lauke-lux
Fractal Fanatic
A youth friend, who was asked and refused to replace Huub Jansen of Dutch Swing College who retired during the eighties or early nineties, knew their entire discography "spot on". Changed to rock music back then and he is as solid as a click track live, even mocking us if we accelerated sometimes, but even he's using a click when recording.
vetteboy79
Inspired
I mostly play guitar these days but piano was my primary instrument, and I took classical lessons from when I was little all the way through high school. My teacher always had me do two things at the beginning of every lesson, before touching the piano - sing a middle C, and tap 120 BPM, without a reference for either. At the time I had no idea how valuable it was to learn, but I swear doing - and practicing - those two small things every week for 12+ years played a huge part in my musical development.
To this day I can still count off a minute within +/- 1 second without a reference, and tune a guitar pretty damn close without a tuner.
I would practice when bored during classes at school, just sitting there trying to count off a minute, two minutes, etc and seeing how close I could get. Might be an interesting experiment to try with your drummer and see how he does. I also find playing to a click track to be a liberating experience, and generally think that anyone who says 'nah, you just gotta feel it' says that because they can't play to a click.
Likewise as @Bruce Sokolovic says, rehearsal is not the place to work on timing issues. Sort that out on your own. I'm (reluctantly) in a cover band project right now with a drummer of questionable timing...the project was brought to me as an established gigging act, which is cool, except I replaced the 'established' guy and it's basically starting from scratch with everyone and now I get to pay to be in a rehearsal space while they sort out the harmonies in Sweet Home Alabama or figure out the timing on how to come back in after the chorus break on The Weight. Sucks because they're all cool people but I kinda need to stress to them that these days I take gigs that pay well to 'not' rehearse aside from a 15 minute rundown of starts/ends/segues before the show.
Funny thing is that drummer is the first one to call out timing issues on everyone else in the local music scene, and wonders why other guys get all the seat time at the open mics.
To this day I can still count off a minute within +/- 1 second without a reference, and tune a guitar pretty damn close without a tuner.
I would practice when bored during classes at school, just sitting there trying to count off a minute, two minutes, etc and seeing how close I could get. Might be an interesting experiment to try with your drummer and see how he does. I also find playing to a click track to be a liberating experience, and generally think that anyone who says 'nah, you just gotta feel it' says that because they can't play to a click.
Likewise as @Bruce Sokolovic says, rehearsal is not the place to work on timing issues. Sort that out on your own. I'm (reluctantly) in a cover band project right now with a drummer of questionable timing...the project was brought to me as an established gigging act, which is cool, except I replaced the 'established' guy and it's basically starting from scratch with everyone and now I get to pay to be in a rehearsal space while they sort out the harmonies in Sweet Home Alabama or figure out the timing on how to come back in after the chorus break on The Weight. Sucks because they're all cool people but I kinda need to stress to them that these days I take gigs that pay well to 'not' rehearse aside from a 15 minute rundown of starts/ends/segues before the show.
Funny thing is that drummer is the first one to call out timing issues on everyone else in the local music scene, and wonders why other guys get all the seat time at the open mics.
AminorZmajor
Experienced
My current drummer was speedy and a great solution is an app you can download called live bpm. On our setlist I have all the recorded bpm’s of the songs. My ask was to not deviate more than 2 bpm from the original recording. It’s worked out really well. On a side note, I agree with Bruce regarding rehearsal. I guess I am that guy as well. LOL….
Dave Merrill
Axe-Master
Couple semi- random musings.
For those who dislike rehearsal, IMO the task and joy of being a musician is to find/create something cool in all your musical moments -- full club, empty club, awesome acoustics, cavernous empty hanger, your favorite songs, the others, etc. I wouldn't want to show up to rehearsal expecting it to be a drag I wish I didn't have to go to. I'm there to find the magic thing and rock it, just like a gig. THAT is the main thing we're practicing, cultivating muscle/soul memory of, and strengthening the communal belief that we can do, maybe not to the very height every single night, but enough to be worth coming together for.
/hippie
Re timing, I agree that some people just have an amazing sense of time that's awesome to watch and hear, and some don't. This thread is inspiring me to work on it in some of the suggested ways, because I think I'm somewhere in the middle - pretty good feel on a good day.
I thought of this thread when I semi-accidentally watched a very old live Yes show the other night. Jon Anderson's pitch sense is just uncanny, pretty near always pretty much perfect. Like timing, some people just have that hardwired. Wish I did as a singer.
For those who dislike rehearsal, IMO the task and joy of being a musician is to find/create something cool in all your musical moments -- full club, empty club, awesome acoustics, cavernous empty hanger, your favorite songs, the others, etc. I wouldn't want to show up to rehearsal expecting it to be a drag I wish I didn't have to go to. I'm there to find the magic thing and rock it, just like a gig. THAT is the main thing we're practicing, cultivating muscle/soul memory of, and strengthening the communal belief that we can do, maybe not to the very height every single night, but enough to be worth coming together for.
/hippie
Re timing, I agree that some people just have an amazing sense of time that's awesome to watch and hear, and some don't. This thread is inspiring me to work on it in some of the suggested ways, because I think I'm somewhere in the middle - pretty good feel on a good day.
I thought of this thread when I semi-accidentally watched a very old live Yes show the other night. Jon Anderson's pitch sense is just uncanny, pretty near always pretty much perfect. Like timing, some people just have that hardwired. Wish I did as a singer.
DaveO
Fractal Fanatic
There you go, sooo many drummers are like that, if they don’t physically explode there’s a good chance they will emotionally😂🤣😂💣💣💣💥💥💥
levipeto
Fractal Fanatic
Btw He has not only fallen off the chair, but he also fell off the stage as well.
DaveO
Fractal Fanatic
Is he available?
🍺🍻🍺🍻
Rich G.
Experienced
We've used an app called LiveBPM during practice. It tells you what your current BPM plus it gives you a graph so you can see if things are speeding up.
fcs101
Fractal Fanatic
Maybe you could figure out a way to connect it to some electrodes in the drummers seat and have it administer a shock if he strays outside of set parameters! ⚡