Getting a drummer to play in time

jclemensfl said:
First things first: does he understand this is a problem?
If he doesn't, then your challenge is different.
If this is the case, record some rehearsals and then play them back, pointing out the trouble areas, if he is the kind of guy who can be receptive to constructive criticism.
But he won't ever be "all-in" on fixing the issue if he doesn't really think it's an issue, and just a case of the guitarist bitching about nothing.

If he does realize it is an issue, then you are halfway there. Having played drums to a click for well over a decade, I can tell you it is just like every other skill I learned on the drums: I had to actually practice it. The excuse that a decent drummer "can't" do it is just that, an excuse.
I hear what you're saying about "sucking the fun" out of music, but often that is just a rationalization for someone who doesn't want to do something.
The click tracks I designed have a clave on 1,2,3&4, a tambourine on 1&3, and a light cowbell on 1, all at different volumes. It makes for a much more musical click and gives the drummer a clear understanding of where he is at every point in the click. Try it! Or come up with your own version of click musicality. Have him play to a full percussion track (congas, bongos, bells, etc.). Whatever works.
And do your best to explain to him how both you and he don't want to be listening to tracks five years from now and be frustrated by how much the tempo varies. Once those drum tracks are done, they live on forever, good or bad.
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Music should always be fun, BUT! Like anything else in life, anything worth doing and any skill that needs to be developed takes work. There's a time to get to work and a time to have fun. Often, these 2 times do not meet. The gigs are fun. Thats where you show off all your hard work. Rehearsals and improving your skillsets are the work. I have little patience for beer guzzling horsing around rehearsals. I want to get the material right. If we want or need to socialize after that, lets go sit in the diner but Im somewhat a rehearsal nazi. I do NOT like rehearsing as it is, and most certainly don't want to waste time there. At the gigs Im a different person. Loose, playful and mostly laid back. Work and play.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Music should always be fun, BUT! Like anything else in life, anything worth doing and any skill that needs to be developed takes work. There's a time to get to work and a time to have fun. Often, these 2 times do not meet. The gigs are fun. Thats where you show off all your hard work. Rehearsals and improving your skillsets are the work. I have little patience for beer guzzling horsing around rehearsals. I want to get the material right. If we want or need to socialize after that, lets go sit in the diner but Im somewhat a rehearsal nazi. I do NOT like rehearsing as it is, and most certainly don't want to waste time there. At the gigs Im a different person. Loose, playful and mostly laid back. Work and play.
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The best sounding musicians I have ever played with were excellent at practicing. Not more talented than others but knew the benefit and seriousness. More business like which can suck a little fun out but more amazing result when playing live.
 



Dave Grohl on rehearsal.

He's like my spirit animal when it comes to volume, sound-filled stages, passion, living in the moment,
and remembering that Rock-N-Roll dies when it is overscripted and beat to death with the hammer of
perfection.
 
To me music is a living breathing thing. It should be able to ebb and flow. When the drummer's or anyone's attention gets fixed to a robotic click, his/hers attention goes off the actual music. Clicks are difficult to play with.
 
la szum said:




:)
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I remember one rehearsal in particular one guy showed up with a COUPLE of 6 packs (we were paying by the hour). Within a half hour of drinking I packed up my shit and left. No work was getting done and no one was focusing. I guess once I left, they were able to have some fun. Everybody wins.
 
NeoSound said:
The best sounding musicians I have ever played with were excellent at practicing. Not more talented than others but knew the benefit and seriousness. More business like which can suck a little fun out but more amazing result when playing live.
Click to expand...
this way when you're playing live, you CAN have fun and don't have to worry about an unrehearsed, unprepared band. Everyone drops a note or a chord here and there, but theres no excuse for messing up intros, song form, cutting sections in half, etc etc etc.
 
of the drummers I've worked with...within 6 months of working with the click they became much more competent drummers. After 6 months the only time a click was needed was for songs with tracks. The improvement was always dramatic. Even though they complained the whole time, at least in the beginning, they were always grateful for the experience.
 
pauly said:
HI all,

Ok - we all have our 'things', so lets avoid 'just use a click track'.
I play with a drummer that I like - He's a good bloke, hits the drums hard, I've known him for 100 years, and he's not let me down.
He does, however refuse to play with a click track (actually, he just can't)... It sucks all the fun out of music for him, and he spends so much energy trying to match the clock, it all just falls apart. I'm a little tired of listening back to recordings and being unable to use them due to tempo fluctuations.
So - We play without the click... but geeze we speed up so much!
I've tried a click track - no
I've tried a light flashing in time.. No
I've tried an echo in the monitors in time... not really.

Any ideas how I can setup the studio to get a solid tempo while we play?

Thanks.
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I have played a lot with a drummer who was similar. No way ever would you get him to play with a click. He also did the speed up thing. I and the bass player helped him cure it for the most part. How? You be the clock. When he speeds up, Don't go with him. I know, it is hard to do that but trust me he will start feeling it then and come around closer to the tempo. Another thing If I remember right that helped was to practice playing those songs at different tempos. For instance, if he keeps playing that part at 135 bpm and it should 130 bpm, then start the song off at 5 bpm faster. Then also do it at 5 bpm slower than normal. This was a trick that me and the bass player would use on him. We would just tell him that we wondered how the song would sound if it were either faster or slower in tempo. We would even get crazy and do a song at half tempo or double time. It actually was quite fun and as a side, it made the whole band tighter.
 
Oh, and another thing: don't ever tell him it is him that is off time. We would use reverse psychology on him all the time. Sometimes I would ask him to practice that change where he was speeding up. I would say stuff like, "Man I keep playing that part to fast" etc. or I would blame it on the bass player and say "he is playing to fast there" and ask him to concentrate on that part and play with me to expose the "bass players" off time.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
this way when you're playing live, you CAN have fun and don't have to worry about an unrehearsed, unprepared band. Everyone drops a note or a chord here and there, but theres no excuse for messing up intros, song form, cutting sections in half, etc etc etc.
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I'm with ya. And as far as varying tempos go, if it's intentional, for song emphasis, like a gradual ritard before the final time the chorus comes around, then yeah. But varying time because the drummer doesn't have a good clock, nah. I feel the song should have a steady pulse, but not to the point of being robotic. Iow, if it fits the music, playing slightly behind, or ahead, of the beat, is fine. Especially during solos. But in general, I like a tight band. And that starts with playing to a strict beat.

Imagine covering 2112, and the band isn't tight during the intro. But if the song is say, Shine On Crazy Diamond, well that's different. But again, if we're playing Wish You Were Here, it should remain at a consistent tempo, the whole way through.

I once played with a drummer who sped up every time he did a fill. I couldn't stand it.
 
And this thread reminds me of a very important part of being in a band, that could save you a bunch of time, and a ton of grief:
Before you commit to someone, you have to make sure you're on the same page. If you're like Bruce, you don't wanna get hooked up with players who just wanna use a band as an excuse for getting out of the house once a week, and partying. If you feel the songs should be played like they were recorded, don't link up with people who only like to jam and improvise. That sort of thing. If not, you'll end up frustrated at best, or fighting and breaking up at worst, with a bunch of wasted time lost.
 
Admin M@ said:
I had this problem once. I sorta solved it by presenting some recordings of a performance, then having a talk about laid back presence of mind tempo control. I reinforced this with some coaching and the humorous words "lounge... chairs.... three... four" as a count off once in awhile.

Adrenalin is a monster though.
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Many bands are notorious for playing a little faster live than they do in the studio. It is a very real thing.

Sometimes it is not until you play a song live that you realize it works better sped up a little. So what do
you do, you speed up the tempo some.

I just sense immense shades of grey in this topic that I am not feeling/vibing from others.

Maybe if I speed up I'll be able to catch up. :)
 
TSJMajesty said:
And this thread reminds me of a very important part of being in a band, that could save you a bunch of time, and a ton of grief:
Before you commit to someone, you have to make sure you're on the same page. If you're like Bruce, you don't wanna get hooked up with players who just wanna use a band as an excuse for getting out of the house once a week, and partying. If you feel the songs should be played like they were recorded, don't link up with people who only like to jam and improvise. That sort of thing. If not, you'll end up frustrated at best, or fighting and breaking up at worst, with a bunch of wasted time lost.
Click to expand...

I am not going to speak for others---but at my age I am just happy to have some guys to play with. I have to
wonder if the "No compromising, ball-busters" commenting in this thread are actively playing with others right
now, or do too many people remember what it is like to hang with them.

Sorry. :)

I am, of course, kidding, but also want to be mindful that I am not 23, and I am not going to set the world on
fire with my original band, and the songs we are working on are not being held back from topping the Charts
by a drummer who sways up and down with his tempo from time to time.

Not saying anyone here is an asshole, but I sure have met my share of them, and damn if they don't suck the air
out of the room in the name of "getting it right," and think they need to know everyone else's part. It's a fine, fine
line between demanding perfection and being a blazing narcissist. Again, in my experience.... from having been the
asshole in the room, and from having to walk out on the asshole in the room. :)
 
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