Generally Unsatisfied With Tones - Advice?

Delinquished

Delinquished

Member
Hey guys, hope your all well! I know there are multiple posts which speak about very generic djenty boy tones, and yes i am unfortunately one of them. i know theres alot of people asking how to create them etc, But this post is more about just a general discussion on peoples advice and tips on general FM3 use for more aggressive guitar tones. Im at the end of my tether with this, and am contemplating trying another modeller, but dont want to give up on it! any help is seriously, seriously appreciated.

My main quarrell with the FM3 is that i simply no matter what cannot seem to replicate peoples tones, create my own to a good standard in anyway shape or form so far. From downloading presets, to spending 100s of hours trying to create my own, i simply cannot understand at this point what i am doing wrong, if anything?
Even if downloading presets from youtube videos etc, it seems that the sounds i am hearing people create and use, compared to how it sounds from my end is just too disparate to even compare. I feel that there is something i must be missing or not understanding within this process, as there as so many amazing musicians and bands that use them and sound amazing!

For reference sake, i typically use -

Mayones Regius 7, Bareknuckle Blackhawks
Jackson HT7 & HT6 with bareknuckle Juggernauts
FM3
Scarlett 2i2
Adam TV5s
PC
Cubase 10.5

Signal Path -

Guitar - FM3 - 2i2 - Monitors/DAW

I have set my global settings to best suit my setup to my knowledge, i run my rig tickling the red for nearly all high gain tones, not clipping and at a relatively normal volume. ive tried different IRs, purchasing preset packs, purchasing new pickups, running things at different signal strengths, bypassing my scarlett etc, and even asked some of the people who's tone i want to replicate to help out, and even after, it is no where near what i am hearing from their side in comparison to mine.

For reference sake, if anyone has the time, ive attached probably the best presets i have for live and recorded use, but to me they lack alot of body and punch, sound flat and honestly pretty weak in mixes, on their own, and in comparison to alot of recorded tones i hear coming from the FM3!

I hear alot of axefx II, III, anf FM3 users recorded tones and am just bewlidered that i am simply not able to get any where close. for example, here are some references to what i am trying to acheive rather unsuccessfully.

Bands -

Monuments, Periphery, Invent Animate, Vildhjarta, Spiritbox, Meshuggah, ERRA, Heart of a Coward (You get the idea, generic djent/prog)

Direct examples -



1:35 (Quad Cortex I know)



1:55 (AxeFx II)



1:15 (AxeFx II)

Im not sure if im just chasing something that i already have to extent, but even outside of a context of a mix, i am relatively demotivated by the large gap between what i am trying to achieve and what i have. Ive started to look towards Quad Cortex's purely as am getting pretty underwhelmed with the results of what i am hearing. Im not sure whether it is something within my presets that is the source of my problems or whether it is something more towards how i have it setup. but my tones just lack extreme amounts of body, presence and punch.
If anyone has any advice towards this, or have experience this themselves then id love to hear what you have to say.

Note -
I really appreciate peoples advice on eq, drive settings etc and gain, but i have a rather good understanding of how to acheive what i want with most modellers, amps and VST's. it just doesnt seem to be clicking with the FM3 is all.

Once again, i know this is an extremely long post, but i honestly really appreciate anyone that takes the time to read through and give me some advice as to what im dealing with. im super grateful. Long story short, i feel like theres got to be something that i am missing within how i have my unit setup, how i create patches etc, as i simply cannot replicate or craft a powerful modern metal guitar tone full of body, punch, saturation and clarity.

Again, thank you!
 

Attachments

  • ENGL - CAB - ML USA DJENT SM57 A1.syx
    24.1 KB · Views: 15
  • Splitcoil 5150 Low Gain - CAB - GGD ZILLA Nolly You Only Get One Shot and 2x12 ORNG M25 U70 OH.syx
    24.1 KB · Views: 8
  • 5150 Blue - CAB - ML USA Djent SM57 B3 and A2.syx
    24.1 KB · Views: 9
JRod4928 said:
Watch a video of someone creating a tone on the FM3 on YouTube. @2112 Leon Todd comes to mind.

The tones are in there. Just need to learn how to extract it.
Click to expand...
ive watched probably 6-7 hours of his videos specifically to try and help, but even when copying number for number, it sounds basically nothing alike, loads of highend and little to no body
 
First thought, have you tried using the FM3 as your interface into your DAW
and bypassing the Scarlett and its preamps?

The Scarlett is an interface, but also a preamp with baked in EQ. It may be
cutting low-end and adding hi-end.

I downloaded your presets and got reasonably close the tones you are aiming
for with some minimal tweaking
 
la szum said:
First thought, have you tried using the FM3 as your interface into your DAW
and bypassing the Scarlett and its preamps?

I downloaded your presets and got reasonably close the tones you are aiming
for with some minimal tweaking
Click to expand...
I have tried using the axe as my interface, going straight into cubase, but no difference. it offers very minimal change, with loads of hassle due how my setup is orientated.
Whats your setup like? im curious if there are any major differences between ours.

Thanks for your response!
 
Bummer. I got nothing then.

My setup is similar in that I run the FM3 into a mixer (so I can leave multiple instruments
setup and ready to go) that doubles as my interface.
 
la szum said:
Bummer. I got nothing then.

My setup is similar in that I run the FM3 into a mixer (so I can leave multiple instruments
setup and ready to go) that doubles as my interface.
Click to expand...
damn, that sucks. would it help if i posted a raw recorded guitar track for comparison sake?

Thanks
 
la szum said:
Sure!
Click to expand...


ive tried to double track as raw as possible, no level changes or anything, just recorded and exported.
Compared to what you hear when playing these presets, is there any major difference you hear?

First is the ENGL, second is the 5150 High-gain, third is the 5150 low-gain

Thanks for your time!
 
Delinquished said:
Hey guys, hope your all well! I know there are multiple posts which speak about very generic djenty boy tones, and yes i am unfortunately one of them. i know theres alot of people asking how to create them etc, But this post is more about just a general discussion on peoples advice and tips on general FM3 use for more aggressive guitar tones. Im at the end of my tether with this, and am contemplating trying another modeller, but dont want to give up on it! any help is seriously, seriously appreciated.

My main quarrell with the FM3 is that i simply no matter what cannot seem to replicate peoples tones, create my own to a good standard in anyway shape or form so far. From downloading presets, to spending 100s of hours trying to create my own, i simply cannot understand at this point what i am doing wrong, if anything?
Even if downloading presets from youtube videos etc, it seems that the sounds i am hearing people create and use, compared to how it sounds from my end is just too disparate to even compare. I feel that there is something i must be missing or not understanding within this process, as there as so many amazing musicians and bands that use them and sound amazing!

For reference sake, i typically use -

Mayones Regius 7, Bareknuckle Blackhawks
Jackson HT7 & HT6 with bareknuckle Juggernauts
FM3
Scarlett 2i2
Adam TV5s
PC
Cubase 10.5

Signal Path -

Guitar - FM3 - 2i2 - Monitors/DAW

I have set my global settings to best suit my setup to my knowledge, i run my rig tickling the red for nearly all high gain tones, not clipping and at a relatively normal volume. ive tried different IRs, purchasing preset packs, purchasing new pickups, running things at different signal strengths, bypassing my scarlett etc, and even asked some of the people who's tone i want to replicate to help out, and even after, it is no where near what i am hearing from their side in comparison to mine.

For reference sake, if anyone has the time, ive attached probably the best presets i have for live and recorded use, but to me they lack alot of body and punch, sound flat and honestly pretty weak in mixes, on their own, and in comparison to alot of recorded tones i hear coming from the FM3!

I hear alot of axefx II, III, anf FM3 users recorded tones and am just bewlidered that i am simply not able to get any where close. for example, here are some references to what i am trying to acheive rather unsuccessfully.

Bands -

Monuments, Periphery, Invent Animate, Vildhjarta, Spiritbox, Meshuggah, ERRA, Heart of a Coward (You get the idea, generic djent/prog)

Direct examples -



1:35 (Quad Cortex I know)



1:55 (AxeFx II)



1:15 (AxeFx II)

Im not sure if im just chasing something that i already have to extent, but even outside of a context of a mix, i am relatively demotivated by the large gap between what i am trying to achieve and what i have. Ive started to look towards Quad Cortex's purely as am getting pretty underwhelmed with the results of what i am hearing. Im not sure whether it is something within my presets that is the source of my problems or whether it is something more towards how i have it setup. but my tones just lack extreme amounts of body, presence and punch.
If anyone has any advice towards this, or have experience this themselves then id love to hear what you have to say.

Note -
I really appreciate peoples advice on eq, drive settings etc and gain, but i have a rather good understanding of how to acheive what i want with most modellers, amps and VST's. it just doesnt seem to be clicking with the FM3 is all.

Once again, i know this is an extremely long post, but i honestly really appreciate anyone that takes the time to read through and give me some advice as to what im dealing with. im super grateful. Long story short, i feel like theres got to be something that i am missing within how i have my unit setup, how i create patches etc, as i simply cannot replicate or craft a powerful modern metal guitar tone full of body, punch, saturation and clarity.

Again, thank you!
Click to expand...

Having tried the QC, the FM3 has waay more tone sculpting options. One thing I could recommend is trying to dial in your tone with a backing track (could be in your daw as a separate track, etc) of an artist you’re trying to emulate. This has helped me learn how to EQ presets to fit the track (even if at times it sounds wonky or bright on its own).
 
LosD said:
Having tried the QC, the FM3 has waay more tone sculpting options. One thing I could recommend is trying to dial in your tone with a backing track (could be in your daw as a separate track, etc) of an artist you’re trying to emulate. This has helped me learn how to EQ presets to fit the track (even if at times it sounds wonky or bright on its own).
Click to expand...
Definitely a great idea for the purposes of mixing and the production side of things! ill give that a go. I'm more concerned with the fact i cannot get a tone i am happy with outside of a DAW at all! honestly ive heard alot of great and bad things about the QC, but im not too concerned with possibilities per say, as honestly i only ever use clean ambient tones, high gain modern rhythm and leads within the same format. so having limited options isnt really a big thing for me right now, id rather have less but higher quality to my ears than shit loads that im not happy with if you catch my drift :)

Thanks for your reponse, ill give it ago!
 
yek said:
Check your global settings.
Click to expand...
Ive been through numerous videos on global settings, and tried to adjust accordingly.

they are as follows -

1653840820366.png

1653840833603.png

rest is bone stock!

If theres anything out of the ordinary please let me know!

I appreciate your time massively, thanks!
 
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Reactions: yek
Delinquished said:


ive tried to double track as raw as possible, no level changes or anything, just recorded and exported.
Compared to what you hear when playing these presets, is there any major difference you hear?

First is the ENGL, second is the 5150 High-gain, third is the 5150 low-gain

Thanks for your time!
Click to expand...

Engl clip sounds awesome. Middle 5150 clip has a weird semi-phasey sound. Not good. 3rd 5150 clip sounds ok. 5150III is much better to my ears in the FAS than the OG 5150. I would look at one of the Rectos in the box, add a boost perhaps?

To be fair; the point of these kinds of tones isn't necessarily to have "body". They are notched tf out (7 horizon drives in series :D) into high gain amps with the bass knob rolled off as much as possible. Not to mention severe noise gating that is necessary. The body comes in with quad tracking and the bass guitar. These kinds of tones are not satisfying until they sit in the mix, imo. They never strike me as fun to play in your jam room, riffing by yourself kinds of sounds.
 
JiveTurkey said:
Engl clip sounds awesome. Middle 5150 clip has a weird semi-phasey sound. Not good. 3rd 5150 clip sounds ok. 5150III is much better to my ears in the FAS than the OG 5150. I would look at one of the Rectos in the box, add a boost perhaps?

To be fair; the point of these kinds of tones isn't necessarily to have "body". They are notched tf out (7 horizon drives in series :D) into high gain amps with the bass knob rolled off as much as possible. Not to mention severe noise gating that is necessary. The body comes in with quad tracking and the bass guitar. These kinds of tones are not satisfying until they sit in the mix, imo. They never strike me as fun to play in your jam room, riffing by yourself kinds of sounds.
Click to expand...
Thats fair enough! maybe your right in the sense that the tone im looking for is probably sculpted alot further than simply out of the box. Ill give some more tracking a go and see how quad tracking within a mix with these sound. Thanks man!
 
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yek said:
+1 to Jive T.

I tested your presets. They seem okay but it's hard to tell because the user cabs are missing.
Click to expand...
Any 4x12 with a R121 or SM57, maybe a V30 would provide similar results. i posted a small clip of them for reference. Ill give quad a go and see what i think!

Many thanks!
 
This is what your ENGL preset sounds like here. Just single-tracked in Reaper. I messed with the Gate
settings, used Leon Todd's LT7 Mix IR, changed the Speaker IMpedance Curve to the Mesa Slant 4x12,
tossed the Maxoff 808 in front, and adjusted Amp EQ a little to taste. Maybe gives you an idea of how
it sounds the same, different, or worse . :)

I don't really do "djent," and don't have a 7 or 8 string. Closest I could come is a PRS245 tuned to drop C#.


 
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