Gate help please!

metalgarth

Inspired
I used to think I understood how noise reduction worked but now I'm flummoxed. No matter what I do I can't seem to get rid of a SERIOUS BUZZZZ, not just some amp hiss.

At the input stage even without an amp turned on the gain meter is pulsing.
I'm using classic because the intelligent doesn't some to do anything
Thresh: -60.4 (I know what this does)
Ratio: 5.28 (I know what this does)
Att : 1.00ms (I admit I don't understand this parm)
Rel: 170.7ms (I think I understand this parm, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it)
Level: 0.0db (I admit I don't understand this parm)
Input Imp: Auto Im (I admit I don't understand this parm)

Then I put another gate after the amp block, but before the Cab block
Thresh: -16.9
Ratio: 4.15
Att: 10.00
Rel: 223.6
Hold: 100 (I really, don't understand this parmeter at all)

Does anyone see anything BLATANTLY wrong in my settings? It seems like I'm hearing a ton of BUZZZZZ and I can't get real sustain on single notes with out the gate "choking things off"
 
thresh -60 and ratio 3 should be plenty at the input. Most of my guitars are dead quiet at that setting. I have a Les Paul can be a little noisy at that setting but its the guitar.
 
Change guitars, then move around the room, then move rooms entirely (plugs and all). That really don't sound like something you should be trying to dial out with a gate.
 
I think that depends alot on what amp type you are using. Clean amps. I don't need a gate, somewhat dirty amps I could probably get away with a thresh of 60 and a ratio of 3ish. High gain amps, which is what I play mostly, I have to have my ratio up around 4 and my threshold in the 40s to kill the buzz.
 
serious buzz or any kind of noise can be caused by many things. I would start from the beginning of the chain and try another guitar direct to the AXE with nothing else plugged in. Then check all cables, eliminating everything between the guitar and AXE. Also unplug any midi and USB cables, in case you have a ground loop situation going on. As mentioned lift ground.
Another thing I discovered for reducing noise is proper input level. I recently had the global input level at 49. After some discussions in another thread, I raised it using the manual's suggestion for watching for red input LED blinking, and am now set at 90 (I'm going line level in rear jacks). My noise level reduced significantly on noisy amps.
I use classic gate in the input block, with no other gates. I set threshold between -60 to -80, ratio between 1.5 to 3, attack 10, release 100, depending on the amp's gain. I am dead quiet.
 
Start by unplugging your guitar cable from the Axe-Fx input. Buzz gone? If so, it's getting in through your guitar.
 
Rel (release) and hold both control how long after you stop playing, it takes for the gate to kick in. Try setting but of these to super fast, ratio maybe a bit further (all the way down) down, and then play around with the treshold. It is important you have this block at the beginning of your chain.
The treshold reacts based on both your guitars output, but also how gained your input is, so it is impossible to say how this should be set, without being in the room. If you use wireless, it's gain staging will also affect the treshold.
Once you get this to be quiet when you don't play, start opening up for the rel/hold and ratio (if you feel you need to)
I only have 1 gate block in the start of the chain (I prefer a block, so I can assign it to a footswitch and turn it of for noisy parts), and I get dead silence, when I am not playing. The gate in the Axe is the only gate, besides Boss NS-2 that has ever worked for me.
Attack should always be the fastest it can be (never understood why this is not just a fixed, non-adjustable setting)

Hope it helps :)

Edit: An additional this about this, is you get a better understanding of how the gate works, which i think is essential, as I have experienced that my gate starts acting up at different venues (must be a cab/monitor thingy), and I had to make small adjustments then and there, to make my setup work for me.
 
ratio maybe a bit further (all the way down) down

All the way down (if you meant counterclockwise) would be ratio = 1, which is no gating at all. I'd suggest a fairly high ratio to hear the gating more easily as you adjust other parameters. Then at some point lower the ratio and continue fine-tuning.
 
The noise gate acts differently at different venues because different venues have different levels of noise. Use the global NOISEGATE OFFSET parameter to compensate for changes of venue.
 
I feel your pain with the buzz and noise issue. My current home sits right beside a 150ft tall cross country line with smaller ones all under it on the same right of way.. my music room is literally 40ft from the right of way. The farther I move through my house away from it, the less the noise and buzz is. The problem with that though, is that the other end of the house is the kitchen, laundry room, and living room. So moving my music room to the other end of the house isn't even possible. I've got good grounding throughout the whole house and even have my outlets in the room on its own circuit. However the noise isn't coming from my electricity, it is coming from the right of way.. The lines out there are acting like antenna transmitting noise and in turn my guitar pickups are picking up that noise as well. I have tested my guitars at my neighbors who live near the right of way like me and its the same thing pretty much, but go to another neighborhood that does not have the huge right of way and things are dead silent, even on the other side of the neighborhood I live in, its much better. For now, I just deal with it the best I can.
 
The noise gate acts differently at different venues because different venues have different levels of noise. Use the global NOISEGATE OFFSET parameter to compensate for changes of venue.
One reason why some venues cause more noise is because there may be a crossed common/neutral wire in the power distro system. Or maybe the power rating is a higher or lower voltage/wattage/amperage. There is this one outdoor venue that creates the most problems for me. The breaker panel is 300 feet from the stage. 2 heavy cables go from the panel to the stage feeding 2 50 amp circuits to distro boxes. Then 2 50 ft cables run front and back of stage with quad boxes every 10 feet. I have to lift all grounds or get a local radio station.
 
Noise gates are misunderstood. They aren't there to clean up a noisy signal, they are there to allow a signal through when it reaches a certain level (which is set by the THRESHOLD parameter) and that signal could be anything. They aren't intelligent enough to sort out buzzes from guitar strings. That won't happen.

Once the gate has been triggered by a signal reaching this threshold level the rest of the parameters are just like any other envelope and help to shape how fast the signal cuts in (ATTACK parameter), how long the gate holds at full volume after the signal has dipped back below the threshold level (the HOLD parameter) and determines how long the signal should take to fade out (RELEASE parameter).

You shouldn't be fretting over these settings so much, they are usually set and forget.... and you shouldn't really need a gate after the amp module. That won't help the buzzing anyway, just amp hiss.

It sounds very much to me like your guitar's wiring needs looking at. Try a different guitar, try a different cable and try the whole rig somewhere else. If it is fine in another location then you may have a pylon or something near by causing electromagnetic interference, or something else at home causing an issue.

Does the guitar stop (or start) buzzing if you touch any of the metal parts? Are you using active or passive pickups? Sometimes people make the mistake of earthing actives to the tremolo claw.

It could be as simple as two wires touching.

I wouldn't play any gigs with it until you know what is causing the problem. Not unless you want a new hair style!

I hope that helps man ;)
 
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Noise gates are misunderstood. They aren't there to clean up a noisy signal, they are there to allow a signal through when it reaches a certain level (which is set by the THRESHOLD parameter) and that signal could be anything. They aren't intelligent enough to sort out buzzes from guitar strings. That won't happen.

Once the gate has been triggered by a signal reaching this threshold level the rest of the parameters are just like any other envelope and help to shape how fast the signal cuts in (ATTACK parameter), how long the gate holds at full volume after the signal has dipped back below the threshold level (the HOLD parameter) and determines how long the signal should take to fade out (RELEASE parameter).

You shouldn't be fretting over these settings so much, they are usually set and forget.... and you shouldn't really need a gate after the amp module. That won't help the buzzing that goes in anyway.

It sounds to me like your guitar's wiring needs looking at. Try a different guitar, try a different cable and try the whole rig somewhere else. If it is fine in another location then you may have a pylon or something near by causing electromagnetic interference, or something else at home causing an issue.

Does the guitar stop (or start) buzzing if you touch any of the metal parts? Are you using active or passive pickups? Sometimes people make the mistake of earthing actives to the tremolo claw.

It could be as simple as two wires touching.

I wouldn't play any gigs with it until you know what is causing the problem. Not unless you want a new hair style!

I hope that helps man ;)


All great tips, as I stated above with my situation, I've determined that the interference is coming from the huge right of way beside my house. The determining factor was moving to another room temporarily and trying my gear in other homes in my neighborhood. The other homes I tried that were right beside the right of ways were also noisy with my guitar, but the ones that were not up close to it were dead silent. Those huge lines really do create a ton of noise. We also have a huge substation about 200 yards away from us up the right of way which I'm sure contributes to the noise moving down the lines beside my house. Nothing you can really do other than deal with it for now.
 
Sometimes, in apartment complexes or small subdivisions, particularly those with underground wiring, there will be pad-mounted power distribution transformers here and there to step down the line levels to 220vac to feed the residences. They usually look like green metal boxes a couple/few feet on a side, just sitting there apparently doing nothing...

underground_transformer.jpg


They can generate a helluva lotta noise that'll drive you nuts trying to figure out where it's coming from. Of course, the bigger they are, the larger the magnetic field surrounding them and more they'll interfere with you.
 
All great tips, as I stated above with my situation, I've determined that the interference is coming from the huge right of way beside my house. The determining factor was moving to another room temporarily and trying my gear in other homes in my neighborhood. The other homes I tried that were right beside the right of ways were also noisy with my guitar, but the ones that were not up close to it were dead silent. Those huge lines really do create a ton of noise. We also have a huge substation about 200 yards away from us up the right of way which I'm sure contributes to the noise moving down the lines beside my house. Nothing you can really do other than deal with it for now.


Indeed. There's a venue situated next to a train station in Hamburg. Playing guitar there is like playing an electric fence ha!

As long as we know what's causing the buzzing we can either deal with it or live with it..... or fry on stage.
 
Sometimes, in apartment complexes or small subdivisions, particularly those with underground wiring, there will be pad-mounted power distribution transformers here and there to step down the line levels to 220vac to feed the residences. They usually look like green metal boxes a couple/few feet on a side, just sitting there apparently doing nothing...

underground_transformer.jpg


They can generate a helluva lotta noise that'll drive you nuts trying to figure out where it's coming from. Of course, the bigger they are, the larger the magnetic field surrounding them and more they'll interfere with you.
Indeed. But that lil box is nothing! The substation right up the line from me is about 100 yards x 100 yards in size and it's only a couple hundred yards up the right of way from me. Those huge transmission lines carry the noise too. Sucks but it is what it is. The further away I play from them (ex: 4 houses down from me), the quieter it gets.
 
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