Gate Block - stop playing, gate closes, then re-opens on its own, then closes again after a second - with clip

GreatGreen

Power User
I've been trying to setup a Gate block after my amp block, but the Gate keeps behaving strangely. Doesn't matter if I'm using an Axe-Fx model or routing outside the Axe and using a real amp and reactive load.

What happens:
1. Gate block placed after Amp block. Sidechain source set to Input 1 where my guitar is plugged in.
2. I play a few notes then abruptly stop playing, even quickly rolling the guitar's volume down to zero.
3. Gate activates so patch goes back to silence, but within a quarter of a second or so, the Gate will fully open for anywhere between a half second and two full seconds, then it will immediately close again after that until I resume playing.

This happens on all Gate modes, Classic, Modern, and Downward Expander.

Sounds like:
-notes, notes, notes, up to abrupt stop
-0.2 seconds of silence or so
-loud "SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" as the gate re-opens for a full second (I set my amps up with a lot of gain)
-silence again until I start playing


Gate block settings:
Place block after Amp block or after Input block where reactive load is routed back onto the grid, doesn't matter.
Set Attack, Hold, and Release fairly aggressively, anywhere 5 ms or under is what I've been doing.
Sidechain source: Input 1

couple examples in quick succession of some playing then rolling the volume down to immediately cutting off the last note before the gate reopens:

 

Attachments

  • III-Noise Gate Bug Test.syx
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I've been trying to setup a Gate block after my amp block, but the Gate keeps behaving strangely. Doesn't matter if I'm using an Axe-Fx model or routing outside the Axe and using a real amp and reactive load.

What happens:
1. Gate block placed after Amp block. Sidechain source set to Input 1 where my guitar is plugged in.
2. I play a few notes then abruptly stop playing, even quickly rolling the guitar's volume down to zero.
3. Gate activates so patch goes back to silence, but within a quarter of a second or so, the Gate will fully open for anywhere between a half second and two full seconds, then it will immediately close again after that until I resume playing.

This happens on all Gate modes, Classic, Modern, and Downward Expander.

Sounds like:
-notes, notes, notes, up to abrupt stop
-0.2 seconds of silence or so
-loud "SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" as the gate re-opens for a full second (I set my amps up with a lot of gain)
-silence again until I start playing


Gate block settings:
Place block after Amp block or after Input block where reactive load is routed back onto the grid, doesn't matter.
Set Attack, Hold, and Release fairly aggressively, anywhere 5 ms or under is what I've been doing.
Sidechain source: Input 1
Please export a preset that demonstrates the problem and attach it to your post.
 
Please export a preset that demonstrates the problem and attach it to your post.

I'm logged into AxeChange. There are no interface elements on the site in any of the links I click that allow me to upload a preset. I have already loaded one preset there today. Is there a limit of one preset per day?
 
Your preset works fine here therefore the only logical conclusion is that it's either something with your guitar or your environment.
 
@FractalAudio

Man that's so strange. I will say that as I fiddle with the Gate settings and keep playing around with it, sometimes the gate re-opens after I stop playing and sometimes it doesn't. I also have Axe Edit open and watching the block if that makes a difference. I haven't been able to pinpoint anything more than that and I haven't been able to reproduce it every single time I stop playing, just most times. But the above clip clearly shows something is going on, and in that clip I quickly rolled my guitar volume off every time I stopped playing so I think there's minimal chance that it's RF interference or some signal getting through my volume knob on 0. Besides, as can be heard in the clip, it's just regular high gain amp hiss coming through, no extra noise or anything like that.
 
@FractalAudio

Man that's so strange. I will say that as I fiddle with the Gate settings and keep playing around with it, sometimes the gate re-opens after I stop playing and sometimes it doesn't. I also have Axe Edit open and watching the block if that makes a difference. I haven't been able to pinpoint anything more than that and I haven't been able to reproduce it every single time I stop playing, just most times. But the above clip clearly shows something is going on, and in that clip I quickly rolled my guitar volume off every time I stopped playing so I think there's minimal chance that it's RF interference or some signal getting through my volume knob on 0. Besides, as can be heard in the clip, it's just regular high gain amp hiss coming through, no extra noise or anything like that.
If you guitar's volume knob is scratchy that will exhibit the behavior.
 
If you guitar's volume knob is scratchy that will exhibit the behavior.

Actually about a week ago I sprayed some of Peavey's Funk Out in my guitar's pots. The volume knob had been scratchy lately but after I did that, 100% of the scratchiness disappeared. The clip was made last night and I can tell you there was no scratchiness in the pot at all when I made it. After I rolled the volume off, there was effectively zero signal coming out of that guitar.

Also I'm using a 10 foot Mogami cable straight into the front input.

But even if the pot was scratchy, that doesn't explain the 1+ second gate re-open times. A scratchy pot being scratchy with the settings in that patch should have made the scratchy sound, then the sound would be immediately gated after that and not re-opened.
 
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Here's another detail, not sure if it's relevant. I do have another cable from another source plugged into the rear Input 1. However, no signal was being sent to that input. Not sure if this is relevant since I thought the rear input is mechanically disabled when you plug into the front, but I'm mentioning it just for the sake of completeness.
 
try to eliminate every "unnecessary" variable, and then try different versions of the necessary ones to help isolate. some suggestions:
  • Remove the extra cable in the back input
  • move away from your computer so you dont pick up EMI
  • try a different guitar
  • try a different guitar cable
  • try a different USB cable
  • if your guitar is active, replace the battery
  • try a different input on the axe-fx
  • try a new preset with minimal blocks, and reset any blocks in use
  • if you have another audio interface, make sure it is disconnected
  • make sure your Axe-FX drivers, usb firmware, and Axe firmware are up to date

I'm sure I'm missing some other suggestions, but as a last resort you can also backup your Axe-FX and then try a factory reset.
 
Since the latest noise gate firmware, I got trouble when I use the axe in the fx loop of my head just for a few effect sometimes. The gate don’t act like before. I need to turn it up way more than before when I’m in od channel and so … it completely kills the sound when I switch to clean . It worked better before . I don’t remember which firmware does this huge change in setting but it’s one of the latest . 19.03/04? Don’t know .

If one day you can, just try the noise gate in the fx loop of whatever high gain amp . I think there is something to do to have a better gate in the unit. Something more intelligent, less radical or … like isp decimator or the one in the kemper. The gate in the axe is probably the only thing I m not very satisfied with in the whole unit
 
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Since the latest noise gate firmware, I got trouble when I use the axe in the fx loop of my head just for a few effect sometimes. The gate don’t act like before. I need to turn it up way more than before when I’m in od channel and so … it completely kills the sound when I switch to clean . It worked better before . I don’t remember which firmware does this huge change in setting but it’s one of the latest . 19.03/04? Don’t know .

If one day you can, just try the noise gate in the fx loop of whatever high gain amp . I think there is something to do to have a better gate in the unit. Something more intelligent, less radical or … like isp decimator or the one in the kemper. The gate in the axe is probably the only thing I m not very satisfied with in the whole unit
I have trouble getting the gate to work perfectly in high gain too. I’m pretty sure it’s a matter of dialing in the gate right.

When I use Neural DSP plugins the gate algo they have seems to work really good. On line 6 I have the same issue as fractal with seemingly not as good performance. I think it has to do with the other parameters beyond just having one threshold control.
 
I have trouble getting the gate to work perfectly in high gain too. I’m pretty sure it’s a matter of dialing in the gate right.

When I use Neural DSP plugins the gate algo they have seems to work really good. On line 6 I have the same issue as fractal with seemingly not as good performance. I think it has to do with the other parameters beyond just having one threshold control.
Yes in the helix it works the same way.

The thing is : when you set your gate to have zero noise while not playing, with your fingers to the strings , when you just start to play a note, all the noise come back, like the gate turned off completely . it work too much like a door. Open, close . But it don’t clean the signal when you play .

In the isp and the kemper, you set one knob and setting only at the point you have no noise and it worked perfectly for all the applications,don’t change the sound, don’t cut the note while doing a bend etc .

I don’t know how they manage to do that . But if one day @FractalAudio can study the question it can be a huge improvement.
 
Yes in the helix it works the same way.

The thing is : when you set your gate to have zero noise while not playing, with your fingers to the strings , when you just start to play a note, all the noise come back, like the gate turned off completely . it work too much like a door. Open, close . But it don’t clean the signal when you play .

In the isp and the kemper, you set one knob and setting only at the point you have no noise and it worked perfectly for all the applications,don’t change the sound, don’t cut the note while doing a bend etc .

I don’t know how they manage to do that . But if one day @FractalAudio can study the question it can be a huge improvement.
Theres a technique where you only gate everything above a certain frequency and leave all the lows ungated. This kills all the buzz and string noise but still leaves some 'body'.
 
Actually about a week ago I sprayed some of Peavey's Funk Out in my guitar's pots. The volume knob had been scratchy lately but after I did that, 100% of the scratchiness disappeared. The clip was made last night and I can tell you there was no scratchiness in the pot at all when I made it. After I rolled the volume off, there was effectively zero signal coming out of that guitar.

Also I'm using a 10 foot Mogami cable straight into the front input.

But even if the pot was scratchy, that doesn't explain the 1+ second gate re-open times. A scratchy pot being scratchy with the settings in that patch should have made the scratchy sound, then the sound would be immediately gated after that and not re-opened.
I just tried your preset (audio here) and the Gate block works exactly as it should, which would seem to indicate noise is being introduced somewhere in your chain.
 
Theres a technique where you only gate everything above a certain frequency and leave all the lows ungated. This kills all the buzz and string noise but still leaves some 'body'.
Don’t know how it work, but these “1 knob perfect gate” is the only thing I miss from my past gear .
As I said , the last gate update make it worse when you just want to use it in the fx loop of a tube amp . but even with the axe only there are some space for improvements
 
Isp release a more complex (and expensive) product that’s seems to be very interesting too. The decimator g strings already kick ass but this one seems to go even further .
Haa if Cliff can do a killer gate. Pretty boring to consider buying an external gate .

 
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Theres a technique where you only gate everything above a certain frequency and leave all the lows ungated. This kills all the buzz and string noise but still leaves some 'body'.
In fact, interesting myself a little more, this is how it seems to work with isp (and probably the one in the kemper too) In the 3, I got pickups noise while I play, so it don’t act like this
 
FIRMWARE 21.X new smarter gates incoming.

Legit dream i saw 4 days ago.

Tbh newer faced an issue with the gates on the 3 , They're perfect , For very high gain, i Use a combination of modern gate and downward expander both. Modern to nail down the ringing notes by attenuation and then quieting down the noise using downward expander after amp.

Using the pitch follower modifier on the gate(ratio) is really fun too.

But like everything, on fractal which gets updated these can get even better too.
 
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