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Gary Moore long sustain with FM3

Ruben Jackson

New Member
Hello friends,

A new user here.

Looking for advice if with FM3 I can achieve long sustain like in Gary Moore solo's in Parisienne Walkways live version.

I watched from youtube, he was just standing close to the cabinet and then he could get that beautiful sustain.

Only play in bedroom, I only connect the unit into 2 monitor speaker desktop 5 inch and sometimes using headphone.

Thanks in advance for the torch
 

Piing

Fractal Fanatic
I do this trick at home by placing a small Bluetooth Speaker between my body and the guitar while sitting. It provides eternal sustain
RG8550-Blue-Tooth.jpg
 

Greg Ferguson

Fractal Fanatic
It's all about acoustic coupling, i.e., enough volume from your speaker to shake the guitar and vibrate the guitar strings, which excites the pickup which sends that note to the amp, which amplifies it and spews it into the air back to the guitar, which shakes the strings....

The only parts that are difficult about it are knowing your guitar and its pickups well enough to know which is the most resonant, and to know what difference from the speaker will affect your guitar.

Holding a note for 30 seconds is easy, but doing it at will with any note is a different situation. Carlos Santana, after sound check, wanders the stage and marks the spots he can stand that will guarantee his trademark sustain. It's not luck, it's knowing the equipment.

It's not that Gary Moore happened upon some magic thing, it's that he did what others do, he figured out the distances.
 

TSJMajesty

Power User
It's all about acoustic coupling, i.e., enough volume from your speaker to shake the guitar and vibrate the guitar strings, which excites the pickup which sends that note to the amp, which amplifies it and spews it into the air back to the guitar, which shakes the strings....

The only parts that are difficult about it are knowing your guitar and its pickups well enough to know which is the most resonant, and to know what difference from the speaker will affect your guitar.

Holding a note for 30 seconds is easy, but doing it at will with any note is a different situation. Carlos Santana, after sound check, wanders the stage and marks the spots he can stand that will guarantee his trademark sustain. It's not luck, it's knowing the equipment.

It's not that Gary Moore happened upon some magic thing, it's that he did what others do, he figured out the distances.
Aren't there "sustainer" PU's that will also help you do that? Also having a harmonically-rich tone to begin with?
 

TSJMajesty

Power User
Yes, but why waste the money? It's an easy thing to figure out.
I was being serious. I've seen those PU's, and thought they offer something more than just finding the best spots on stage, or figuring out which notes resonate better than others. I guess I just thought they offer more flexibility, but not suggesting someone who only needs occasional feedback would go to the trouble of swapping out their PU.
 

Greg Ferguson

Fractal Fanatic
I was being serious. I've seen those PU's, and thought they offer something more than just finding the best spots on stage, or figuring out which notes resonate better than others. I guess I just thought they offer more flexibility, but not suggesting someone who only needs occasional feedback would go to the trouble of swapping out their PU.
I was serious too.

It’s not that hard to hold a single note. I do it often, sometimes for an obnoxiously long time. The audience thinks it is really hard, which is what makes it funny. What’s harder is controlling it and moving into different notes at will or pausing in a solo to pick which note will sustain, but even that isn’t that hard once you’re used to hearing how the guitar resonates and how it comes alive.

An E-Bow is a great tool for this and is more controllable because it can be moved to different spots over the various harmonic locations on the guitar neck to emphasize the notes at will.
 
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TSJMajesty

Power User
So was I. It’s not that hard.
K. When you put the "haha" icon on my post, I thought maybe you thought I was trying to give a smart-ass comment, discounting what you said. (Which I wasn't.)

I think another reason I asked that, is in one of my favorite songs by Dream Theater, As I Am, it's obvious John Petrucci does struggle live to get the feedback in the beginning of the song. I don't think I've seen any videos where he's gotten the feedback consistently, it's either 3 or 4 times, can't remember exactly..., but he usually only gets 1 or 2, and they're weak. Some notes definitely resonate much easier than others, so that was part of why I was curious as to the use of that type of PU.
 

Piing

Fractal Fanatic
Thank you for trick. Do you mind to share your connectivity settings with the bluetooth?

I do not use the Bluetooth, I connect Out-2 of the Axe-FX III to the Aux Input of the speaker, through a XLR to 3.5 mm jack cable that I've made. In the case of the FM3 you can do the same with Out-2 to direct the guitar signal only, not the background track from the DAW.

20210731_151135.jpg
 

Greg Ferguson

Fractal Fanatic
K. When you put the "haha" icon on my post, I thought maybe you thought I was trying to give a smart-ass comment, discounting what you said. (Which I wasn't.)

I think another reason I asked that, is in one of my favorite songs by Dream Theater, As I Am, it's obvious John Petrucci does struggle live to get the feedback in the beginning of the song. I don't think I've seen any videos where he's gotten the feedback consistently, it's either 3 or 4 times, can't remember exactly..., but he usually only gets 1 or 2, and they're weak. Some notes definitely resonate much easier than others, so that was part of why I was curious as to the use of that type of PU.
I think that effects get in the way of controlling feedback. When I have heavy reverb or delay the sound seems less responsive, probably because of phasing issues occurring.

The best times have been with my amp near me on its lead channel and the volume cranked. The acoustic coupling is such that I’m riding the volume control and twisting and turning to find the notes.
 

Piing

Fractal Fanatic
At 0:42 of this video there is one example of the last time I've used the Bluetooth speaker to get long sustain

I recorded that part in another track at the DAW, while sitting with the speaker between the guitar body and me.

The tricky pat is to run the speaker at the correct volume, not too loud or too soft, because it is very easy to get nasty squeals when the magnet is coupled with the pickups. Just enough volume to transmit the vibrations to the guitar body

 

Ruben Jackson

New Member
At 0:42 of this video there is one example of the last time I've used the Bluetooth speaker to get long sustain

I recorded that part in another track at the DAW, while sitting with the speaker between the guitar body and me.

The tricky pat is to run the speaker at the correct volume, not too loud or too soft, because it is very easy to get nasty squeals when the magnet is coupled with the pickups. Just enough volume to transmit the vibrations to the guitar body

I do not use the Bluetooth, I connect Out-2 of the Axe-FX III to the Aux Input of the speaker, through a XLR to 3.5 mm jack cable that I've made. In the case of the FM3 you can do the same with Out-2 to direct the guitar signal only, not the background track from the DAW.

View attachment 86622
Hi Piing, I'm too dumb to understand this: In the case of the FM3 you can do the same with Out-2 to direct the guitar signal only, not the background track from the DAW.

my current setup is FM3 Out 1 (Main) LR are connected to the 2 speaker monitor 5 inch and then guitar is connect thru IN 1 (INSTR).

Do you mean I need to add bluetooth speaker connect to the OUT 2?

0:42 of the video is exactly I need to copy

Appreciate your help.
 

Piing

Fractal Fanatic
Hi Piing, I'm too dumb to understand this: In the case of the FM3 you can do the same with Out-2 to direct the guitar signal only, not the background track from the DAW.

my current setup is FM3 Out 1 (Main) LR are connected to the 2 speaker monitor 5 inch and then guitar is connect thru IN 1 (INSTR).

Do you mean I need to add bluetooth speaker connect to the OUT 2?

0:42 of the video is exactly I need to copy

Appreciate your help.

That is correct

Guitar to FM3 Instr In-1
Out-1 of the FM3 to Monitors (Mix from DAW)
Out-2 of the FM3 to Bluetooth speaker (Guitar only)
 

Ruben Jackson

New Member
That is correct

Guitar to FM3 Instr In-1
Out-1 of the FM3 to Monitors (Mix from DAW)
Out-2 of the FM3 to Bluetooth speaker (Guitar only)
Thank you Piing, will do your advice.

I enjoyed your band cover Def Leppard in youtube and I noticed huge of sustain in the video too. Nice job.

Have a nice weekend
 

Piing

Fractal Fanatic
You don't get sustain from your amp. You can get feedback but it is primarily your guitar and you.

I think that there are two phenomena occurring there:

1) The sustain is increased by the vibrational energy that returns from the speaker to the guitar body. That is what I get with my Bluetooth Speaker: eternal sustain (without harmonics) that can even solve the problem with guitars that have a nasty dead note.

2) When that feedback loop gets saturated, harmonics are produced. That is what normally guitarist mean by "feedback". e.g.: Joe Satraini "Flying in a Blue Dream"
 
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