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FX8's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness

usernametaken

New Member
but then each type would have different controls on different pages, it wouldn't be consistent. that'd probably another wish list thread "make all types put the parameters on the same pages."
Not sure if this would be the case though, if the 'hide advanced parameters' was unchecked then couldn't the relevant parameters just appear 'unhidden' on the correct pages? When they are hidden the simplified three knobs just squeeze together on the one page. It would be great for gigs when you need to tweak quickly.
 

usernametaken

New Member
Like many guitarists, I started with a traditional pedalboard with mostly analog pedals. Eventually I purchased a POD X3 Live, which for me was very dissatisfying. So, I gave the X3 to my son and returned to real but unwieldy pedals. Despite the multiple tweaking options, the FX-8 has streamlined my setup and equaled (and in fact, surpassed in some cases) the tone of pedals on the board. As stated above, you have a choice of how deep you want to explore the parameters of each block – keep it simple or tweak to your heart’s content. Prsaxman’s method above is a good one for familiarizing yourself with the possibilities overtime.
Good to know - thanks - what pedals have you replaced with the FX8?
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
Not sure if this would be the case though, if the 'hide advanced parameters' was unchecked then couldn't the relevant parameters just appear 'unhidden' on the correct pages? When they are hidden the simplified three knobs just squeeze together on the one page. It would be great for gigs when you need to tweak quickly.
What are the 'relevant' 3 knobs? This can vary per effect type and effect. So every effect / effect type would need to get its own 'easy' page. Lot of work to program and kind of against the underlying principles of the Axe-Fx I think.
 

usernametaken

New Member
What are the 'relevant' 3 knobs? This can vary per effect type and effect. So every effect / effect type would need to get its own 'easy' page. Lot of work to program and kind of against the underlying principles of the Axe-Fx I think.
I would have thought this would be easier to define in the case of stomps - it would be the original knobs from the pedal. I.e a Rat has a Dist/Tone and Vol. I think OP mentioned a tubescreamer which has three knobs.

I see your point in the case of the other things. I know that the FX8 doesn't really set out to emulate stomps in the other areas. However, I do think that the common parameters on stomps in other areas are pretty uncontroversial. Not necessarily three knobs, but I think most of my gigging pedals have no more than four knobs.

Bear in mind I am used to multi floorboards which have specific models in all areas and then a limited selection of parameters. I understand FX8 and Axe follows a different ethos and I respect that entirely. I am just thinking that as a gigging guitarist I would perhaps like that feature. But as you point out it would probably be a lot of work and not everyone wants that. I just thought the OP may have had a good point.
 

chris

Legend!
but then you'll make a 3 knob page, and then have a pedal that has 4 knobs on the real pedal, and people will complain that the 4th knob isn't there.
 

DavidE

Power User
No disrespect intended, but it sounds like the user is the weakness, not the FX8.

Oooh! I'm going to slap you next time I see you! LOL. You've heard me say many times that if a pedal has too many knobs and/or buttons, I'll make it sound terrible.

I totally agree with the original poster. The ability to tweak so many parameters is a strength, but it also makes it easy to dial in a poor sound which is a weakness. The simplicity of the M series pedals were one of the things I liked about it. If there was an effect I liked, there weren't too many parameters to tweak to make it sound bad. Of course the drives were useless (to me) as well as many of the other effects, but I liked enough of the modulation, delay and reverb effects and it was easy enough to dial in that it sounded good. I got numerous compliments on my tone while using an M9 or M13.

With the FX8, there are SO many parameters that it would be easy to mess up the tone. BUT, I've liked being able to change the clipping device (tube, diode, fet etc...) on the various drive effects so having that additional ability is awesome. However, there are lots of parameters for many of the blocks that I have no idea what they do. Is there some kind of manual online?

One of the things I need to look into is what the different delay blocks do. When should I use Multidelay vs. a regular delay block etc...? Why did adding a multidelay block take less CPU than a regular delay block? That one I don't understand yet.

So yes, this strength is also a weakness, arguably due to a very computer centric user interface.
 

DavidE

Power User
but then you'll make a 3 knob page, and then have a pedal that has 4 knobs on the real pedal, and people will complain that the 4th knob isn't there.

Chris: I don't think you're following. If the original pedal had 4 knobs, then there would be at least 4 parameters on the page to duplicate the parameters on the original. It's somewhat of a Line 6 approach to a simplified interface, though even Line 6 would often add an additional control that wasn't on the original (like a tone knob or bass boost etc..) that people would find useful.
 

chris

Legend!
Chris: I don't think you're following. If the original pedal had 4 knobs, then there would be at least 4 parameters on the page to duplicate the parameters on the original. It's somewhat of a Line 6 approach to a simplified interface, though even Line 6 would often add an additional control that wasn't on the original (like a tone knob or bass boost etc..) that people would find useful.
So the "easy" page would constantly be changing depending on the type selected? Seems more confusing to find things.
 

luthier42

Member
I more or less agree with the OP. I have a II XL and not an FX8, but I also have a job and kids and never enough time to tweak with all of the amp and effects combinations. What's more, I've only had the chance to ever play through a very small fraction of the real gear that I've got modeled in this wonderful black box. I'd love it if there were some way to at least in Axe-Edit highlight the controls that are available on the original equipment. That way I can treat it the way that it was designed to work in the real world before I go off the deep end getting lost for days of deep editing. I know you're talking about the effects, but I can't help but wish this were even more the case with the amps. I think I've spent close to as much time looking back at the manual and wiki to figure out what controls the real amp has as I have tweaking those controls looking for "the tone".
 

chris

Legend!
That way I can treat it the way that it was designed to work in the real world before I go off the deep end getting lost for days of deep editing.
But why do you go off in deep editing though? Can't you just change what you know? Honest question.
 

Hhuent

Experienced
I more or less agree with the OP. I have a II XL and not an FX8, but I also have a job and kids and never enough time to tweak with all of the amp and effects combinations. What's more, I've only had the chance to ever play through a very small fraction of the real gear that I've got modeled in this wonderful black box. I'd love it if there were some way to at least in Axe-Edit highlight the controls that are available on the original equipment. That way I can treat it the way that it was designed to work in the real world before I go off the deep end getting lost for days of deep editing. I know you're talking about the effects, but I can't help but wish this were even more the case with the amps. I think I've spent close to as much time looking back at the manual and wiki to figure out what controls the real amp has as I have tweaking those controls looking for "the tone".
Count me in, absolutely! Even three knobs can be challenging when they interact with each other. This thread worries me seriously. Never worked with fractal gear before so bear with me. I was hoping for an easier approach And a "main edit section for non-tweakears" because I a) am not experienced in tone technics and do not plan to be b) do not have the time to fiddle with lots of interacting parameters as I work in a demanding job and hardly have enough time to practice with my guitar, do rehearsals and gigs and stuff c) I am a personwho actually likes to rtfm to understand gear but tends to forget the details easily. Does this make me the wrong target group for the fx8? Talking software, smartphones, car electronics, tvs you name it - most people use a fraction of what the device can do. Simplifying things and still let people enjoy their gear is a major challenge everywhere. Did I say people? I know enough pro musicians who tell me, they leave the tweaking to their techs. I hope for a database of presets where I can contribute, but download stuff what I can' t achieve. So, Fractal, please install the ax change website and help less experienced tweakers like me with visually enhanced knobs for the easy stuff. Thank you.
 

Bojangles

Experienced
What worries me about these threads is that you went out and bought the most powerful and configurable all in one modeler in the world, and you want less options

Though i really understand where you are coming from, it seems a little un-realistic to have a couple of knobs named awesome 1, awesome 2, awesome 3

Honestly this wasn't a jab
 
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usernametaken

New Member
What worries me about these threads is that you went out and bought the most powerful and configurable all in one modeler in the world, and you want less options

Though i really understand where you are coming from, it seems a little un-realistic to have a couple of knobs named awesome 1, awesome 2, awesome 3

Honestly this wasn't a jab
I think a large part of why people bought the fx8 is the quality of the sound and the build though. Which goes against what you are saying. Some people bought it for deep editing though which is fine.

I don't think anyone said they want an awesome knob, I know you are being light hearted but this is missing the point IMHO. it reminds me of when my university lecturer got upset when I brought in a Letts notes version of contract law instead of the massive latin tolme he had written.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
The only control that needs to be added is self-restraint. :)

Seriously, take a Drive block. You want more or less gain? Adjust the Drive control. You want it brighter? Adjust Tone. You want it louder? Adjust Level.
That covers the majority of the drive pedals out there.

Those controls are already present on the first page of the Drive block. And they operate just like on the original pedal (in G3 models).
Just ignore that Mix (and Balance on the Axe-Fx) also exist on that page, and you're there.

Also, creating a visual copy of the original pedal would only help those who own or have used that particular pedal.
 

chris

Legend!
I just don't understand why people MUST resort to turning all the knobs, especially if they don't know what something does.

If the basic knobs (and come on, you know what knobs those are!) don't get you the sound, try a different type or model.

I can't count the number of clients who tried to make the Mark IV (USA Lead) sound like a fender twin, or JTM45, or AC30, etc. they just HAD to use the mark IV model, yet simply switching to a Marshall would have gotten them their exact tone. Instead they endlessly tweaked advanced parameters and convinced themselves it sounded better... Until the next day they listened with fresh ears and it sounded horrible to them.

After much coercing, these people tried a Marshall amp sim, and bam, done. Basic knobs only.

This might hold true for the drive block as well, so definitely try different types before turning all the knobs.

Again, I highly doubt that majority of guitarists don't know which knobs are "basic" knobs for a drive pedal. It's time to get over the desire to only change exactly what's on the original pedal, and instead to create sound with your ears, not eyes. This is said time and time again.
 

usernametaken

New Member
I just don't understand why people MUST resort to turning all the knobs, especially if they don't know what something does.

If the basic knobs (and come on, you know what knobs those are!) don't get you the sound, try a different type or model.

I can't count the number of clients who tried to make the Mark IV (USA Lead) sound like a fender twin, or JTM45, or AC30, etc. they just HAD to use the mark IV model, yet simply switching to a Marshall would have gotten them their exact tone. Instead they endlessly tweaked advanced parameters and convinced themselves it sounded better... Until the next day they listened with fresh ears and it sounded horrible to them.

After much coercing, these people tried a Marshall amp sim, and bam, done. Basic knobs only.

This might hold true for the drive block as well, so definitely try different types before turning all the knobs.

Again, I highly doubt that majority of guitarists don't know which knobs are "basic" knobs for a drive pedal. It's time to get over the desire to only change exactly what's on the original pedal, and instead to create sound with your ears, not eyes. This is said time and time again.
Chris I respect your opinion but I am not sure you see the point. I think you are over complicating it.

This isn’t about people who have no ear for tone, or people who want an ‘awesome’ switch, or people who bought a powerful unit and don’t want power. Nor is it about people who want a Fender to sound like a Marshall (this is not the Axe FX!). Its about workflow which has been common to stomp box users for years. The FX8 is bringing in users like me who are moving from a collection of boutique stomps or other pedalboards.

For those of us who have used pedals for 15 years or we do use our eyes (in addition to our ears). There is nothing wrong with that, some people are more visual than others. If the model is exacting, then we take comfort in easily and quickly getting around our favourite settings. Although Line 6 and Digitech could learn some things about tone, they do have some cool interface ideas based on a real world model concept.

Clearly some people who have bought the FX8 are struggling with it. Does it mean the product isn’t for them? Well I thought it was aimed at lovers of boutique pedalboards who want an all in one setup. Those people, like myself, ideally want an interface that reflects those pedalboards (while keeping power under the hood for those who want to see it). Simple as that. Whether we get that or not is fine, it is up to Fractal. But can we discuss it without being made to feel like we don’t ‘get it’? I would hope so.
 
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