FX Loop block, and Copy Out1-2 questions...

[paulasbell]

A while back, I built a few presets for my acoustic flattop. The idea was to take separate feeds from my K&K blender preamp (1 for the bridgeplate PU, and 1 for the internal mic), and run them into separate inputs of the AxeFx. I’ve now got the PU feed running into the Rear Input 1, and the Mic feed running into Rear Input 2, Left. I put the FX Loop block at the beginning of the top row, for the Mic signal, and after separate EQ’s, I use a mixer block to mix the PU and mic signal. Then, into a TM block, reverb, and out. Works quite well.

However, it’s been a while since I made these presets, and I’m wondering if there’s a better way to do this. In that regard, I’ve got 2 questions...

#1) Is there a way to introduce the mic signal into the top row of the grid, other than by using the FX Loop block?

#2) By using the FX Loop, it appears that I’ve eliminated the option to Copy Out1 to Out2 for these presets, which is somewhat limiting. Has that limitation ever been addressed? Or is it still the same limitation it’s always been? Any workarounds?

TIA for any suggestions...

 

[Poparad]

1) The only other option would be to set Input 1 to stereo, then plug into In 1 L and In 1 R, which would give you both signals from the beginning of the grid, panned hard left/right.

2) You're correct, the FXL block removes the Copy Out 1 -> Out 2 option. It's always been that way, unfortunately. A number of people (myself included) have voiced our desire to not have this be the case a good number of times now, but there hasn't been any official comment on it. Quite a number of people use the FXL not as a loop, but as a 2nd input, just as you're doing, and it would be very beneficial to retain the use of Out 2 for stage/FOH sends.

 

[Rex]

You can use Input 1 Left and Right instead. Use two Vol/Pan blocks. Set Input Select on one of the blocks to Left Only. Set the other one to Right only. Now you have one signal for each pickup.

 

[paulasbell]

Thanks, Poparad and Rex!

I s'pose I should have been clearer. I already DO use the Input1, L+R trick, Stereo I/O, w/ a Vol block at the beginning of every preset. That way, I keep 2 guitars plugged in, and switch between 'em on a preset basis. The acoustic blender/pre has always gone into the Rear input, various electrics go into the Front in.

However, at some point a while back, I decided that I really wanted to try separating the PU and mic signals, EQ-ing/processing 'em separately within the Axe, and recombining them, before 'verb-ing. Thus... THREE inputs would be needed. (And, now that I'm finally remembering the thought process that got me to create those presets, with the FX Loop at the beginning of the chain.... As one would expect, these "2-input" presets sound somewhat better than the ones I had previously built sending the "pre-blended" signal into the rear left input only.
But, much later, I'm now re-remembering the FX Loop limitation, re Copy1-2. I was wondering if, while i was in Rip Van Winkle-land, something might have changed re that limitation. Sounds like "No"....

Count me as one more person who wishes that an architecture change could be found to change that. But i won't hold my breath!

 

[paulasbell]

Quick addendum to my previous post....

As mentioned, I now build ALL my presets w/ the Vol block at the beginning, switching between L and R inputs, and keep my I/O switch "permanently" set in Stereo mode. (I'm embarrassed to admit that I'm scared to become habituated to needing to switch between "Stereo" and "Left Only", depending on the gig or situation, because I'm convinced I'll forget to switch, sooner or later...

But, given that I stay in that I/O Stereo mode... am I correct that anytime I download someone else's patch (from Yek, AxeChange, etc) I most likely will want to make a 6db input boost, in order to really experience the patch the way it was intended?

 

[Rex]

If you're always running stereo in, bump Global Amp Gain to +6 dB and be done with it. Dial in your own presets for that.

 

[paulasbell]

If you're always running stereo in, bump Global Amp Gain to +6 dB and be done with it. Dial in your own presets for that.

Thanks for the reply, Rex. Just to make sure this dimwit is understanding this correctly...

Should I bump Global Amp Gain up 6db, leave it there for the foreseeable future, and THEN edit the Amp block of every one of my present presets, so that the drive is reduced 6db? Can that be consistently achieved by halving whatever value I've presently got set in the Input Trim field? That doesn't sound right, somehow...

Maybe put a 6db filter block in front of each of my present presets?

 

[Rex]

I'm not sure what you've got going on in the Input Trim field.

What I do know is that, when running in stereo, the input level drops by 6 dB. Adding 6 dB to Global Amp Gain compensates for that. When you do that, other people's presets will translate correctly.

 

[paulasbell]

I'm not sure what you've got going on in the Input Trim field.
What I do know is that, when running in stereo, the input level drops by 6 dB. Adding 6 dB to Global Amp Gain compensates for that. When you do that, other people's presets will translate correctly.

Different values depending on the patch. Mostly LESS than 1.000... thus, my question.

I get the concept, thanks. I'm wondering if putting a -6db Filter Block near the beginning of each preset chain might be the easiest way to accomplish that....

 

[Bakerman]

The input/gate block has a level control you could set to -6 dB. Alternatively, you might want to consider keeping your presets how they are, and adjust input level as needed in other users' presets.

 

[paulasbell]

The input/gate block has a level control you could set to -6 dB. Alternatively, you might want to consider keeping your presets how they are, and adjust input level as needed in other users' presets.

Thanks for that alternative suggestion as well, Bakerman! I take it that the Input/Gate block setting is on a "per preset" basis? Yeah, that may be the best idea yet for me.

So... bump up the Global Amp gain by 6db, set the Input/Gate block gain of each of my pre-existing, personally-made presets to -6db, keep my I/O setting always in "Stereo" mode, and then all factory presets, AxeChange presets, etc should sound as intended, going forward. Do I have that correct?

Thanks, everyone, for all the helpful suggestions!!!

 

[Bakerman]

Thanks for that alternative suggestion as well, Bakerman! I take it that the Input/Gate block setting is on a "per preset" basis? Yeah, that may be the best idea yet for me.

So... bump up the Global Amp gain by 6db, set the Input/Gate block gain of each of my pre-existing, personally-made presets to -6db, keep my I/O setting always in "Stereo" mode, and then all factory presets, AxeChange presets, etc should sound as intended, going forward. Do I have that correct?

Yes, input level is per-preset.

One thing to be aware of is any drive blocks before amp block in other presets will be hit by 6 dB less level with this solution. So to hear that type of preset as it would sound with a normal left/mono input setting, you'd want to increase input block level 6 dB or set drive block input select to the current channel being used. Then set amp input trim to half of its current value.

 

[Rex]

Yes, input level is per-preset.

One thing to be aware of is any drive blocks before amp block in other presets will be hit by 6 dB less level with this solution. So to hear that type of preset as it would sound with a normal left/mono input setting, you'd want to increase input block level 6 dB or set drive block input select to the current channel being used. Then set amp input trim to half of its current value.

Good call. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[paulasbell]

I'm thinking now that it may well be best for me to just get acclimated to changing the I/O setting, when going between my usual gig mode, and "playing other peoples' presets" mode.

Once again, guys... thanks so much for helping me think this through before proceeding! The crowd-sourced info base here is really awe-inspiring, and greatly appreciated.