FW15 - Backwards Compatibility Compromises Development?

M

Mack

Member
I have observed that there are two distinct camps of Axe-Fx II users vis a vis firmware updates:

1. Those that need backwards compatibility with their existing presets, and;

2. Those that don't.

Judging from the many posts by "FractalAudio" (Cliff Chase personally, if I understand correctly), Fractal is engaged not only in an amazing ongoing development, but also in supporting (or at the very least, trying to support) backwards compatibility with existing user presets.

My concern is that if Fractal needs to ensure backwards compatibility with user presets created in previous firmware versions, this inevitably draws a significant amount of time and energy away from the otherwise unfettered process of developing the best possible results obtainable from the existing hardware. Perhaps it even imposes limitations.

I belong to the camp that does not require any backwards compatibility whatsoever. To me, the Axe is just an amp. It just happens to be the best amp in the world, and it happens to have a lot of controls. When I update firmware, I start from scratch (happily!). Like someone noted in another thread, getting new firmware is like getting a brand new amp. (Plus it's free and you get to keep your old amp!!! Some guys out there just don't seem to get this but I digress....)

I want Fractal to know that I don't need backwards compatibility. In fact, I think that the concept is counter-intuitive. The interaction of virtual components is far too complex, and you're never going to get the most out of it if you don't start from scatch and use your ears. No offense is meant to the backwards-compatible guys, but I have a hunch that the start-from-scratch guys are a much-less-vocal majority.

Anyway….those are my thoughts on the matter. My objective is simple: I (very thankfully) would like to see Fractal squeeze the absolute most out of the existing hardware, and if ignoring backwards-compatibility helps that cause, then screw backwards-compatibility. :) Remember, FW updates are optional.

Mack
 
i'm not sure if "backwards compatibility" is it though. many want the new firmware advantages without changing their amp tone. i think that's the main part. as you probably agree, this simply is not possible. how can you change the virtual components without changing the sound? that's not compatibility, that's zero change.

as you mentioned, and many echo (and many others hate), firmware does not have to be upgraded. then the sound won't change.
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia:

Yeah, you're right, with some people it's a paradox. But I think those people's position is not valid by any measure.

My concern is that some guys have a legit reason to want to keep old presets (ie - many complex presets), right? So what I'm saying is that catering to that camp might be compromising the development of the full potential of the hardware. A friendly competition, if you will, for Fractal's development time.
 
I’m with you 100%. Out with the old and in with the new. It’s easy enough to restore an old firmware and your old presets if you don’t like the result of the update and you have an important gig and don’t have time to adjust presets at the moment.

This is also why I think the base firmware should remove the v9 cabs (and possibly also the kalthallen cabs) and make room for new Ultra Res cabs. And if for instance the newly captured TV mix cab is “close enough” to the old one I think the new UltraRes one should replace the old, even if it’s possibly the most popular cab out of all the factory cabs. Out with the old and in with the new!
 
Mack said:
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia:

Yeah, you're right, with some people it's a paradox. But I think those people's position is not valid by any measure.

My concern is that some guys have a legit reason to want to keep old presets (ie - many complex presets), right? So what I'm saying is that catering to that camp might be compromising the development of the full potential of the hardware. A friendly competition, if you will, for Fractal's development time.
Click to expand...

i completely agree. not to say their wishes aren't valid or important, but choices must be made. i, too, vote for forward motion.

we always have the option to stay at an older firmware version and presets if necessary. i've done it many times in the past, and move forward when i can.
 
The funny thing is that we can have great patches and probably don't need to change them in any ways as we may be 100% happy with them, but as soon as we know a new firmware is out some of us, knowing that some FW will change the amps tone of that great patch, can't help but bite the bullet and update and then start complaining about how it drastically changed their favourite tone etc.... i mean, we are all warn beforehand about what could happen yet we don't give a f@¬4ck.


Don't update if you can't handle the task of updating all your presets. Its very simple.
 
I'm slowly coming around from my old ways of dreading firmware updates that change tone to embracing it. I think the reason is that in earlier firmwares, it took a lot of work to get a great tone and you wanted to protect that investment of time. Not so much anymore. Takes almost no time at all to dial something great in. It's like stepping up to a real amp and turning knobs.

And I have a total of 12 patches which rely on 3 global amp models. So it's pretty easy to update.
 
There are hundreds of great patches from older firmware's on the exchange .

You guy's are OK with just tossing them aside as long as you have the newest firmware? Not me.
 
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The solution is simple:
People who complain about firmware updates should own two Axe-Fx's.
One for their existing firmware and patches, and one for the latest firmware with all the new features and amps.
 
i only use others' presets for the routing, setup of blocks or specific effects. i've NEVER had someone else's presets' tone translate to my rig or sound without heavy tweaking.

jimnov said:
The solution is simple:
People who complain about firmware updates should own two Axe-Fx's.
One for their existing firmware and patches, and one for the latest firmware with all the new features and amps.
Click to expand...

no see, you can't say that. because then many will say it's unfair that they have to spend 2x the amount of money. :) many will lobby to have the 2nd for free since Fractal is forcing them to buy 2.
 
Mark's Tone:

Actually, your position makes 100% sense to me: "Stay with FW xx and enjoy".

Also, the "new firmware must be compatible with my old presets" camp makes 100% sense as well. (Some guys have hundreds of carefully crafted patches)

However, the point of my post is that if Fractal wasn't burdened with making firmware updates compatible with old presets, resources (time, money, support) might be freed up and re-directed towards development of the full potential of the hardware. I elaborated further in my original post and post #3.
 
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The new Axe Fx4 will have a quad core processor capable of running two or more different versions of firmware simultaneously.
Dial up the firmware you want and then dial up the amp...

Funny how those folks who complain always find new things to complain about...
Guess some folks are never going to be happy.
Life's to short
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
i only use others' presets for the routing, setup of blocks or specific effects. i've NEVER had someone else's presets' tone translate to my rig or sound without heavy tweaking.
.
Click to expand...

You are an enigma.

I have tried dozens of presets live from Simeon, Yek. Freman, Smilefan, Mark Day and many others. All from past firmwares, with only a hair gain or EQ tweak. To say any preset from past firmware's will be incompatible with a current FW update will be detrimental to FA's future.
 
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