Fundamental of one note on one string decays more quickly

Dave Merrill

Axe-Master
On my Collings City Limits that I've gushed about here and love, the fundamental of the C on the high E string decays relatively quickly, leaving more of the octave above. It's not awful, but it is noticable.

Doesn't seem like a body resonance thing, since the same C on the B or G strings doesn't do that.

For that same reason, it's hard to think about how to change it.

Any thoughts? @Andy Eagle?
 
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On my Collings City Limits that I've gushed about here and love, the fundamental of the C on the high E string decays relatively quickly, leaving more of the octave above. It's not awful, but it is noticable.

Doesn't seem like a body resonance thing, since the same C on the B or G strings don't do that.

For that same reason, it's hard to think about how to change it.

Any thoughts? @Andy Eagle?
Acoustically only or noticeable amplified? Slightly reduce the break angle over the TOM by raising the stop tail . Also is the stop tail strung through (not top wrapped )and is it aluminium ?
 
Acoustically only or noticeable amplified? Slightly reduce the break angle over the TOM by raising the stop tail . Also is the stop tail strung through (not top wrapped )and is it aluminium ?
Thanks for chiming in Andy and everyone.

I hear it acoustically and amplified, but it's more obvious amplified, at least partly because it's in the decay of the note, which stays audible longer amped up, even clean.

Tailpiece is "Kluson Stop Tailpiece (nickel-plated zinc, steel studs)".

Break angle over the bridge strikes me as moderately sharp, but I haven't had a guitar with TOM-style bridge in a long time to compare. Tailpiece is almost but maybe not quite as low as it'll go. Here a pic if that's helpful.20221125_122729.jpgI'm somewhat reluctant to raise it, just because in all my years of playing I don't think I've ever done that. Just turn the studs a half turn CCW or so, that's it?

If you tune the string down to Eb does the same thing now happen to the B note (8th fret) instead or does it still happen on the C (9th fret)?
Then it happens on the next higher fret, at the same pitch as before.

That seems to make a fret issue less likely too, and it doesn't sound like any fret sound I've ever heard anyway. It's almost like another string ringing too, but:
a) don't hear it until the note dies out some
b) it stops instantly when I stop the high E, no ring after that
c) I've plucked every stray length of string (between bridge and tailpiece, nut and pegs) and didn't hear that note
d) I used a capo to fret the note so my hands were free, and damped all those stray string lengths, no difference
e) doesn't happen on that same note on the B or G strings

Strings are the ones it came (guitar was used) with. They still seem fine to me; not a pro any more, day job, don't get to play all that much, or work up a serious sweat. I'll be changing them soon anyway, will see if this changes.

Thanks again for any ideas.
 
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Then it happens on the next higher fret, at the same pitch as before.
Then I think that rules out a fret issue and it's likely a resonance issue somewhere.

I'm sure Andy will have more input.

If you touch the end of the headstock to the wall does the issue go away or become less pronounced?
 
The stop tail is a bit too low. Take it up about 3/5mm and see if it makes a difference. If that doesn't work you can always put an aluminium stop tail on, that would be nicer anyway . New ones have aluminium on stock (as far as I remember .)
 
The stop tail is a bit too low. Take it up about 3/5mm and see if it makes a difference. If that doesn't work you can always put an aluminium stop tail on, that would be nicer anyway . New ones have aluminium on stock (as far as I remember .)
Ok I'll try that.

To do that I just turn the studs CCW, trying to change the height by that amount, that's it?

Are you thinking that a sharp break angle like this is harmful in that it actually * causes * this weird behavior? Or is it more that we're just trying to change * something *, jiggle the handle so to speak?
 
I’ve had resonance issues which are prominent on a single string. Others suggested possibilities (strings, fret, height). Also, check for vibration from tuners to the nut, after the bridge, and between the nut and the fretted note.
 
Ok I'll try that.

To do that I just turn the studs CCW, trying to change the height by that amount, that's it?

Are you thinking that a sharp break angle like this is harmful in that it actually * causes * this weird behavior? Or is it more that we're just trying to change * something *, jiggle the handle so to speak?
It's a bit of both, too much break angle just messes with the intonation and tuning stability. There will be a sweet spot. raising the stop tail will slightly reduce the string length and allow I little more interaction with the dead length. It will certainly affect the issue you have but without trying it I can't say if it will cure it. Most people set this too low .
 
Thanks for chiming in Andy and everyone.

I hear it acoustically and amplified, but it's more obvious amplified, at least partly because it's in the decay of the note, which stays audible longer amped up, even clean.

Tailpiece is "Kluson Stop Tailpiece (nickel-plated zinc, steel studs)".

Break angle over the bridge strikes me as moderately sharp, but I haven't had a guitar with TOM-style bridge in a long time to compare. Tailpiece is almost but maybe not quite as low as it'll go. Here a pic if that's helpful.View attachment 111671I'm somewhat reluctant to raise it, just because in all my years of playing I don't think I've ever done that. Just turn the studs a half turn CCW or so, that's it?


Then it happens on the next higher fret, at the same pitch as before.

That seems to make a fret issue less likely too, and it doesn't sound like any fret sound I've ever heard anyway. It's almost like another string ringing too, but:
a) don't hear it until the note dies out some
b) it stops instantly when I stop the high E, no ring after that
c) I've plucked every stray length of string (between bridge and tailpiece, nut and pegs) and didn't hear that note
d) I used a capo to fret the note so my hands were free, and damped all those stray string lengths, no difference
e) doesn't happen on that same note on the B or G strings

Strings are the ones it came (guitar was used) with. They still seem fine to me; not a pro any more, day job, don't get to play all that much, or work up a serious sweat. I'll be changing them soon anyway, will see if this changes.

Thanks again for any ideas.
Okay, then no fret issue.
 
Ok I'll try that.

To do that I just turn the studs CCW, trying to change the height by that amount, that's it?
Yes. And if you haven't done it yet, I would caution you to use a large screwdriver, and put some sort of protection between the blade of the screwdriver and that screw. The reason you want as big a screwdriver as will fit and still allow you to put something between it and the screw is, the screws can be tight, and having a wide blade will spread the force necessary over a larger area, making it less likely to chip the chrome. It may not chip the day you do it, but I can attest that a small screwdriver can affect that chrome to the point it may flake at a later time.

The thickness of the blade is also important, because if the screwdriver can turn in your hand, back and forth a little bit as it makes contact with the slot in the screw, means that when you turn the screw, the blade is only making contact at 2 points, as opposed to making contact along the entire length of that slot, which is what you want.

Mine on my LP were tight, and I wish I had gotten the right fitting tool, but I didn't know. If doing it today, and my large screwdriver didn't fit snug, as in too much of that back-and-forth wobble, I'd literally get my grinder and grind some of the tip off the screwdriver in order to get to the section where it gets fatter.
 
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