Stratoblaster
Fractal Fanatic
Didn't the guitar tech from Metallica also say on this forum they were using the Reverb (or in the Cab block) block to get some room ambience/sound so their in-ears felt more AITR-ish too??
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FullRes IR vs. Reverb
- Thread starter Jason Scott
- Start date
Stratoblaster
Fractal Fanatic
Nice...thanks. I'm definitely going to play with all of this for sure....
unix-guy
Legend!
Your post was basically saying, "I don't care, I'm not using Fractal anymore"...
Unless I'm completely off-base? I also see the post I replied to is gone.
Greg Ferguson
Fractal Fanatic
First, excellent job! This should breathe life back into those who are despairing that Fractal is passing them by, whether they're on a FX3 Mk I, FM3 or FM9.
I noticed a small difference in sound between the two clips, but in a mix or live I don't think the difference would be noticeable. And, this will help draw attention to the possibility of having a usable alternative for the other devices, so there'll be more tinkering by the community, and possibly @FractalAudio and gang will dig in or tweak the modeling and reduce the difference even more. That you're using Ultra-High quality in the reverb block tells me we could get passable results for live use or on the FM3 using lower quality, way cool!
This is the sort of revelation that is a great asset to the community, so thank you for sharing it!
Fenderbendr
Inspired
Do you run it in parallel or series?
deathbyguitar
Power User
Series. Very last thing in the chain.
Thanks so much for these Jason.
I have an Axe FX II Mark 1, and I can now enjoy the vibe of what FullRes has to offer.
Absolutely awesome stuff!
artzeal
Experienced
In my own tests: the Full Res gives a definitional clarity to space that Reverb can’t easily approximate without some effort. You hear it in ‘phones or Near Field monitoring at low or moderate volume. As the volume goes up to rock performance levels, the sound of whatever room you’re in takes over - for better or worse, depending on the actual room. Whether the Full Res room plays well with the actual room is an ad hoc circumstance, but generally: probably not.
It’s also subtly noticeable in the response or feel aspect of playing: Like playing dynamics - you can’t hear the nuance of the feel of playing dynamics in a recording: you just hear the resulting tone. In the same way a recording of Full Res doesn’t entirely represent the feel of the space you get when playing it.
I’ve made a few efforts out of curiosity to get something similar to the room mic IR responses as well. Basically, tailoring reverb to emulate room mic. My best effort is with small room or large plate, a leaner reverb response than what I would typically use as an effect, with a clear sense of a reflection and minimal diffusion, and a definite sense of a tail (decay) - a quick clear snapshot of the (imagined) space. Not that it sounds good up in the mix, but it does sound more like an amp in the room mixed in down at -9db than typical reverb. There's a need for pre delay to approximate the distance of mics from the speaker (= .9ms/ft), and also the distance to the reflective surfaces of the room and back to the mic that have to be accounted for: In any case, while its possible to improve one's game substantially by doing a better job of crafting reverb to emulate room mics, it becomes evident that IRs of room mics are a smart way to go in recreating spaces that read as authentic.
In any case, Full Res does not replace Reverb as an effect, but it does allow greater potential from Impulse Responses. The Full Res is a more specific space, whereas reverbs tend to be set up to sound like more generalized spaces. Full Res also doesn't change the utility of, or obsolete the vast libraries of conventional IRs we have, as those captures tend to get the speaker and cabinet before the room comes into the signal. Room mics provide the room. Full Res has the DSP muscle and extended time to make it work. Full Res plus High Res Reverb are worth exploring on Acoustic Guitar: just getting into that now.
Anyway, it was interesting to muck around with a bit. Going forward, I'll be taking the easy road by getting some Full Res IRs when they come out, I don’t have a quality room worth recording or the inclination to roll my own. For those that can't make use of it (for now) it may be well worth your while to work up reverbs that give a more specific sense of space. Alternatively, playing in a good sounding space, you may not want to use them.
It’s also subtly noticeable in the response or feel aspect of playing: Like playing dynamics - you can’t hear the nuance of the feel of playing dynamics in a recording: you just hear the resulting tone. In the same way a recording of Full Res doesn’t entirely represent the feel of the space you get when playing it.
I’ve made a few efforts out of curiosity to get something similar to the room mic IR responses as well. Basically, tailoring reverb to emulate room mic. My best effort is with small room or large plate, a leaner reverb response than what I would typically use as an effect, with a clear sense of a reflection and minimal diffusion, and a definite sense of a tail (decay) - a quick clear snapshot of the (imagined) space. Not that it sounds good up in the mix, but it does sound more like an amp in the room mixed in down at -9db than typical reverb. There's a need for pre delay to approximate the distance of mics from the speaker (= .9ms/ft), and also the distance to the reflective surfaces of the room and back to the mic that have to be accounted for: In any case, while its possible to improve one's game substantially by doing a better job of crafting reverb to emulate room mics, it becomes evident that IRs of room mics are a smart way to go in recreating spaces that read as authentic.
In any case, Full Res does not replace Reverb as an effect, but it does allow greater potential from Impulse Responses. The Full Res is a more specific space, whereas reverbs tend to be set up to sound like more generalized spaces. Full Res also doesn't change the utility of, or obsolete the vast libraries of conventional IRs we have, as those captures tend to get the speaker and cabinet before the room comes into the signal. Room mics provide the room. Full Res has the DSP muscle and extended time to make it work. Full Res plus High Res Reverb are worth exploring on Acoustic Guitar: just getting into that now.
Anyway, it was interesting to muck around with a bit. Going forward, I'll be taking the easy road by getting some Full Res IRs when they come out, I don’t have a quality room worth recording or the inclination to roll my own. For those that can't make use of it (for now) it may be well worth your while to work up reverbs that give a more specific sense of space. Alternatively, playing in a good sounding space, you may not want to use them.
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yoitsmegabe
Inspired
These settings are very cool, man. I tried the ValhallIR IRs and compared to your reverb settings. It was such a similar effect. It is close enough that I don't feel like I'm missing out by not having the mark II and fullres. This reverb is what I will use when I play with headphones from now on. The best part is It will work with any IR. The spatial effect of the ValhallIR IR was very cool, but ultimately not my tone. (I don't even know what cab/speaker that was) I'm sure they, and other vendors will have hundreds of cab/speaker combos, but I'm not willing to invest the money and time into auditioning all those IRs. I still haven't gone through all of the included IRS in the Axe FXIII MK1; I just found the two I like and stuck with them. Who knows, maybe this will spark @FractalAudio to create an AITR block. Either way, this was a long winded way to say, thanks for making the shootout and posting the settings. Also, thank you @FractalAudio for the fullres scratch pad on MK1.
DrProgNerd
Member
I liked 'A' better.
I was convinced it was Full Res - because Full Res = better....right? Not here - not to these ears.
I'm very happily proven wrong. Great job.
I was convinced it was Full Res - because Full Res = better....right? Not here - not to these ears.
I'm very happily proven wrong. Great job.
madmarcus1960
Inspired
From the OP, dbg
deathbyguitar
Power User
Yeah I saw that. I prefer it dead last.
madmarcus1960
Inspired
Well in the spirit of experimentation, I will try that and see what works best for me. Sorry to step on your toes. No harm, no foul!
deathbyguitar
Power User
Yeah I didn't take it personally. I have no idea how "real" it sounds like that but it just kinda sounds like you're in this HUGE live room or stage or something. Again, you'd wanna try this with headphones.Well in the spirit of experimentation, I will try that and see what works best for me. Sorry to step on your toes. No harm, no foul!
madmarcus1960
Inspired
I mostly play with my 2 ASM12 Freidmans, so this amp in the room through headphone is not a deal breaker for me owning a Mk1.
Worth a try though, both ways, via the OPs intent and yours.
Stay safe and healthy.
Worth a try though, both ways, via the OPs intent and yours.
Stay safe and healthy.
Chuck P
Inspired
I sometimes do the exact same thing. Studio C, end of the chain, just for noodling solo guitar. I think I agree with similar sentiments in this thread from @guitarnerdswe and the terrific @iaresee - to me, Cab Block is for getting the cab sound/feel on a guitar track, and verb is generally used with compression in a mix to get multiple instruments to squish together. I look at adding unique ambience to just a guitar track as generally a one-off special effect for recording, or a fun inspirational toy to play with when writing/noodling/rehearsing.
To me, it's analogous to how every drum sampler has a giant stadiumverb setting that's fun to jam out to while pretending to be Keith Moon, but you rarely if ever print it to a track, because it won't sit in the mix.
TenorKeith
Inspired
God am I happy my hearing sucks! I can't tell the difference, and that makes me happy. Now I don't have to worry about all this