Fryette 2/50/2 vs Fryette Power Station

As I say - depends how much your attenuating. Its the output level of the VHT that matters. If its too quiet you loose something - but then you'd loose something with an attenuator as well. Its the speaker drive/compression that makes it thin out not the power amp running with a weaker signal.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
The LX11 is basically two Power Stations in one box as its stereo.

FWIW Ive literally bought a Seynor Duncan Powerstage 170. Still have my original Mk 1 Fryette Power Station. initial thoughts.... not a lot of difference.

Now - the Fryette is SLIGHTLY better IF you disable the speaker resonance settings (which you should - because the PowerStation does it naturally - its a function of the output transformer). I mean there is a TINY bit, but you wont tell once other band member kick in.

Short of it its the fryette power station/LX11 are PROBABLY the best if you ONLY go amp cab. If you mix though, and send a feed direct to desk while using Amp/Cab on stage, the Seymore Duncan is better. you can disable the resonance tab in both feeds so either desk or cab is compromised using the valve amps (again not because there valve as such, but because of the output transformer they use).
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This directly from Fryette:

Is the LXII just 2 Power Station power amps in one box? Yes and no. Both products follow the same basic topology used on all of our power amp designs, and yes there are essentially two amps on one chassis, but the toroid power transformer in the LXII is a more efficient and responsive item that the square transformers in the PS-2, PS-100, 2/50/2 and 2/90/2, so it kind of straddles both worlds. If you only use one channel of the LXII, it will be stiffer than the PS-2 as a power amp. If you run both channels in stereo, or in bridge mono, you'll have more headroom and get better power supply utilization, which will give you a better feel, but not at bedroom volume. So, which is best for you is all about application.

What I have noticed personally is it performs/feels Exactly like a tube amp (because it is a tube amp...), and produces little to no color to the sound. Brilliant!!
 
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Manny Fufish said:
This directly from Fryette:

Is the LXII just 2 Power Station power amps in one box? Yes and no. Both products follow the same basic topology used on all of our power amp designs, and yes there are essentially two amps on one chassis, but the toroid power transformer in the LXII is a more efficient and responsive item that the square transformers in the PS-2, PS-100, 2/50/2 and 2/90/2, so it kind of straddles both worlds. If you only use one channel of the LXII, it will be stiffer than the PS-2 as a power amp. If you run both channels in stereo, or in bridge mono, you'll have more headroom and get better power supply utilization, which will give you a better feel, but not at bedroom volume. So, which is best for you is all about application.

What I have noticed personally is it performs/feels Exactly like a tube amp (because it is a tube amp...), and produces little to no color to the sound. Brilliant!!
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Indeed. to be fair the PS also does that. So yeh - application based.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Indeed. to be fair the PS also does that. So yeh - application based.
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Is PS Powerstage or Power Station? I can't tell haha. You‘re saying it also does what? I couldn't follow.

More importantly, you menioned "disable the speaker resonance settings" in your discussion earlier. I wanted to confirm, are you referencing the Output Mode in the Speaker Drive tab of the Amp block, changing between 'FRFR' and 'SS Pwr Amp + Cab' or are you referring to the Cab Resonance in the Speaker tab of the Amp block, setting that value to 0?
Thanks!
 
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PS in that case - Fryette Power Station.

Cab resonance in the amp block - high and low needs to be at 0 for valve amps (any sort) as their output transformers naturally give that.

Now - Im NOT sure if switching OP mode from FRFR to amp cab does this or not - because is your have a SS amp and cab you need to keep those resonance values.
 
miguelete1978 said:
Yeah, I'd probably be running a JMP1, or a Nirvana in the Axe 3 loop, and from then going to the VHT. But I always have that doubt about how much tone I'd lose if I were to set up the VHT at 5/6 and attenuate with the output pot and the output levels. I definitely don't want to buy another attenuator to use the rig stereo.
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The 2502 is a great power amp. But if you're not opening it up, you're not really getting much special out of it. At low volumes it's not going to give up the good stuff. When I started with the Ultra years ago, I used a 2502 briefly with attenuators. I switched to a Boogie 2:90 with attenuators and gigged like that for quite a while - basically until I found the FBT 12ma to use FRFR.

My advice to you is to run your preamps and the VHT without any effects and see if you're getting what you want - if you're using the Axe-Fx for effects only then it's really just how much you like the sound and response of your rig without the Axe-Fx.
 
Manny Fufish said:
I’m in the middle of a deep dive with the Fryette LX II and the Power Station 700. I’m going to document when complete. Short of it is the LXII is the best piece of gear I have gotten for the Axe. All these years, this is exactly what I have been looking for!
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While you continue to work up your final documentation, wanted to get a little more of a preview. I just tested out my Power Station 700 for the first time yesterday. Although it is good in the sense of having ample power, clarity, and lacking congestion, in the totally unfair comparison against one of the best amps out there, I found it to be noticeably flat and lacking in punch, depth, dynamics, etc. By almost diming the bass, I was able to add back a lot of what was missing, but the mid range punch was not addressable.

Now... My comparison was with a Wizard MCII KT75. The A/B comparison was a) MC straight through to my 2x12 Mesa Horizontal Recto cab and B) MC > Suhr RL line out > PS 700 > 2x12 cab, with the same amp settings each time. This is an unfair comparison as the Wizard amps are known to have among the best punch, depth, and dry tightness out there.

I am now wondering if the Fryette LX II would be very noticeably better in the feel and dynamics department over the Duncan. All I know is the Pitbull Ultra Lead is regarded as being just as good as the Wizards by those who own both, but the DNA potential from Fryette is there. It won't be worth considering a switch for me if it is more of just a relatively marginal improvement. Very curious what you experience is so far.
 
The difference your hearing is because the power sections are designed to be different things.

The mc is a standard amp power section (I don't mean it's not special, just it does a typical job). It saturates, compresses, adds to the while.

The point if the ps is it DOESNT do any of that. Its designed to take its input and amplify it with no added anything. Eq, compression, drive... nothing.

It's main purpose it to reduce or amplify a tube amp AFTER its power stage (feed it the cab out signal) so its attenuation a loud amp ar amplifying a quieter one without changing that Amps characters (Inc its power amp section).

OR its a reactive load to silently feed a daw.

OR its a flat, neutral power amp to power a modeller into a cab.

What it ISNT is a traditional power section. Neither is the lx. If you want that from a fryette ypu need the 2.50.2 or 2.90.2

Now, I dont know why you went suhr rl into ps. That could/should work but your mixing designs. You can do the same thing without the suhr and all in the ps..and use its controls to finely match.

Might still not get you there of course, but surly a better comparison?
 
paulmapp8306 said:
The difference your hearing is because the power sections are designed to be different things.

The mc is a standard amp power section (I don't mean it's not special, just it does a typical job). It saturates, compresses, adds to the while.

The point if the ps is it DOESNT do any of that. Its designed to take its input and amplify it with no added anything. Eq, compression, drive... nothing.

It's main purpose it to reduce or amplify a tube amp AFTER its power stage (feed it the cab out signal) so its attenuation a loud amp ar amplifying a quieter one without changing that Amps characters (Inc its power amp section).

OR its a reactive load to silently feed a daw.

OR its a flat, neutral power amp to power a modeller into a cab.

What it ISNT is a traditional power section. Neither is the lx. If you want that from a fryette ypu need the 2.50.2 or 2.90.2

Now, I dont know why you went suhr rl into ps. That could/should work but your mixing designs. You can do the same thing without the suhr and all in the ps..and use its controls to finely match.

Might still not get you there of course, but surly a better comparison?
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At one point I felt like we might have been on the same page in some regards but I can't tell if you might have gotten confused with part of how I had things setup in my comparison.

I was feeding the live Wizard tube amp's speaker output into the Suhr reactive load box, taking the line out signal from the load box and sending that into the Seymour Duncan Power Station 700 that then was hooked up to my cab. So I was feeding the full amp and speaker interaction emulation from the reactive load into the PS 700 to see how close it could come to the tone and feel of the real amp.

Of course I would not use this setup for any reason other than to test out how well the PS 700 can perform. I don't think there could be a more straight forward of a test of what is supposed to be a neutral power amp that is supposed to recreate what is being fed into it than what I did here.

The point I was making was the PS 700 was not only noticeably flat in dynamics and punch compared to the live amp going directly into the same cab with the same settings on the amp, it was also surprisingly lacking in quantity on the bass and high end.

I am not looking for something that would color the sound, so although the 2.50.2 is relatively neutral to the power amp in a regular tube power amp, it has been said that it is not as neutral as the LX II. I have seen the comments about the LX II being a better option for a neutral preservation of the source that is being fed into it. Now I am trying to figure out if it can do justice to a very punchy, dynamic, and uncompressed tone if that is what is being fed into it. It's all good if the answer is that the LX II will probably not be materially better than the SD 700 in this regard, and I'll just have to figure out a different approach for the reconfiguration that I am taking for my rig.
 
Yeh.... my fault - I misunderstood - and got confused between power stage and power station... happens lol.

I did think it off that you were using the Suhr reactive load when the power station is also one of those lol.

HOWEVER, the Suhr reactive load would have put the signal down to line level (im guessing but fairly sure). The question is - what signal level does the Pstage need? Ive been finding it hard to come up with that answer as SD dont make it clear.... They say it can be used from a pedal pre-amp - which isnt line level its guitar level which is different.

I asked them about the AFX outputs - as there are -10 and +4 versions on trhe main outs but the other outs are null gain (ie instrument level really). There answer "dont feed it +4 youll clip the inputs" They didnt clarify further ir-10 was OK or if it needed lower ideally. Realistically wed need to know the ideal input signal (+4/-10,line,instrument) for best dynamic range - or its all guesswork.

Now regards LX11 v Power stage 700.... cant help there. I CAN help in a similar situation as I have the SD Power Stage 170 and the Fryette Power Station 50 (original). That should be a similar level of comparison.

From the AFX - I prefer the Seymour Duncan. This is because the AFX replicates speaker resonance/.interaction between power amp and speaker BUT the Fryette being valve (so has an output transformer) does this naturally. What you end up with is emphasised thump and top end. it sounds and feels great - but its not right. The seymore is much more natural in that regard - though it does seem to feel a little compressed - just a little though.

With a valve power amp driving them however - the SD does feel a little less dynamic and compressed while the Fryette is more alive, and open.

Upshot - with modellers Id use the Power stage (particularly with the AFX but also kemper - not so sure on the others), with real amps (as an attenuator, or a volume booster depending on the amp size)the fryette.
 
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paulmapp8306 said:
Yeh.... my fault - I misunderstood - and got confused between power stage and power station... happens lol.

I did think it off that you were using the Suhr reactive load when the power station is also one of those lol.

HOWEVER, the Suhr reactive load would have put the signal down to line level (im guessing but fairly sure). The question is - what signal level does the Pstage need? Ive been finding it hard to come up with that answer as SD dont make it clear.... They say it can be used from a pedal pre-amp - which isnt line level its guitar level which is different.

I asked them about the AFX outputs - as there are -10 and +4 versions on trhe main outs but the other outs are null gain (ie instrument level really). There answer "dont feed it +4 youll clip the inputs" They didnt clarify further ir-10 was OK or if it needed lower ideally. Realistically wed need to know the ideal input signal (+4/-10,line,instrument) for best dynamic range - or its all guesswork.

Now regards LX11 v Power stage 700.... cant help there. I CAN help in a similar situation as I have the SD Power Stage 170 and the Fryette Power Station 50 (original). That should be a similar level of comparison.

From the AFX - I prefer the Seymour Duncan. This is because the AFX replicates speaker resonance/.interaction between power amp and speaker BUT the Fryette being valve (so has an output transformer) does this naturally. What you end up with is emphasised thump and top end. it sounds and feels great - but its not right. The seymore is much more natural in that regard - though it does seem to feel a little compressed - just a little though.

With a valve power amp driving them however - the SD does feel a little less dynamic and compressed while the Fryette is more alive, and open.

Upshot - with modellers Id use the Power stage (particularly with the AFX but also kemper - not so sure on the others), with real amps (as an attenuator, or a volume booster depending on the amp size)the fryette.
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Ahh makes sense. Yeah so many abbreviations can get things convoluted. Not so surprisingly I have seen a handful of threads that got sideways because of the Powerstage and Power Station. Heck I a pretty sure I referred to them wrong even though I am not 100% sure haha.

So back on task now and on the same page.

I originally got the Duncan for the reasons you mentioned, for seamless continuity between my presents across all monitoring options ranging from studio headphones, FRFR monitors, and a few real cabs. Wanted to keep the same presets in my Axe Fx III for all of this.

Then I started getting back into tube amps. I got down a rabbit hole that started with my obsession with the Mesa Mark IV then the IIc+ which evolved into the Wizard amps (currently own a MCII KT75, MTL MK II 100w e34l, and MCI 100w ee4l). The Wizards are end game for me which is unfortunate given that they don't exist in Fractal land. Good and bad news is the new Neural Quad Cortex does an amazing job at capturing/profiling amps, much better than the Kemper, and netting something closer to what I am chasing than what I was able to squeeze out of the Axe Fx III. With all of that said, the Axe and my tube rig have both spoiled me with the luxury of a wet/dry/dry/wet stereo rig (note, in a mid way point in life where gigging is out of equation with 3 young kids, so getting my rocks off as best I can solo is all I have for better or worse). Anyway, the QC has its failings for the time being with one of them being not enough processing power to pull off the signal chains that I want that would allow me to be able to leverage the Wizard power amps to my stereo cab rig (i.e. just running the preamp capture tones out to the FX loop returns on the amps) and also using the power amp captures and modulation for the FRFR outputs.

Therefore, the option that I was hoping would get me by in the interim was would be to use the SD PS 700 that I already had. But after trying it out, I realized it had a sub par results compared to what I have become spoiled with from the Wizard amps. At least, with how I was using it.

You bring up some interesting comments about the optimal signal level to feed the Duncan power amps. Like you, I understand the Suhr reactive loads to output line level signals which has worked well when I setup my my Axe III and QC returns for this signal level. Also, I have a Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander that I would set to a line level output and get equal volume level when switching back and forth between the TAS and the Suhr with the output know around 75%.

Also, I tend to agree with your pro/con assessment on which power amp option would probably work better for each application. The tone and dynamics that I was getting with the SD PS 700 out of my cab was very very close to what I was getting out of my stereo Atomic CLRs and even studio headphones (Audeze LCD XC) with a matching IR, so the seamless continuity that I originally bought it for was absolutely there. TBD for my own personal on how much better the Fryette PS or LX II power amps might actually be on the feel and dynamics might be for my application. Seems like it is almost certainly expected to be an improvement, but unsure if it is a meaningful enough improvement to be a worthwhile upgrade.

Sorry for the wall of text, but the convo kind of carried on this way.
 
mhenson42 said:
Almost as good. ;):p
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Haha I was mostly trying to quote you, so whatever you say goes...

What are you doing over here? Thought you just bought and sold another Axe Fx. BTW I just bought the Hybrid from JP on Monday!

Going a different direction on the power amp approach when using digital options. Using a Neural Quad Cortex to capture a variety of preamp settings from the Wizards. Will run those into the fx return of the Hybrid and MCII KT75 for a dry signal to my cabs. Then will run the same preamp Capture into a Capture of the power amp, IR, effects and then send that wet signal to FRFR monitors. Can't replace or replicate the Wizard magic. The Axe is unfortunately serving minimal duty because of this and will eventually get phased out when/if the QC does everything I need it to, but I'll come running right back once there is a Fractal that can Capture/Profile amps.
 
Will the Fryette LX 2 be powerful enough to run 2 4x12/s well for live performance over the drums on stage. Reason I am asking is I am getting ready to buy either he LX2 or the 2 90 2 and want to make sure the LX2 will be loud enough if I go that route.. Thanks
 
Manny Fufish said:
This directly from Fryette:

Is the LXII just 2 Power Station power amps in one box? Yes and no. Both products follow the same basic topology used on all of our power amp designs, and yes there are essentially two amps on one chassis, but the toroid power transformer in the LXII is a more efficient and responsive item that the square transformers in the PS-2, PS-100, 2/50/2 and 2/90/2, so it kind of straddles both worlds. If you only use one channel of the LXII, it will be stiffer than the PS-2 as a power amp. If you run both channels in stereo, or in bridge mono, you'll have more headroom and get better power supply utilization, which will give you a better feel, but not at bedroom volume. So, which is best for you is all about application.

What I have noticed personally is it performs/feels Exactly like a tube amp (because it is a tube amp...), and produces little to no color to the sound. Brilliant!!
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Will the LXII be enough to push my 2 4x12 cabs live?? Thanks
 
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