Frustrated to the point of putting it all for sale

+1 for a complete video tutorial series on the AXE II and MFC-101 - or a prescription for adderall...

l still love my rig though!
 
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I’ll add my 202 cents…

Nobody, and I am pretty confident on this one, okay, not many, have started out more naively than I. I was a beginner guitarist when I bought the Ultra in 08 and knew absolutely nothing about the electric guitar signal chain. But I dove in the deep end regardless and had this black box sitting in front of me and no idea how to even hook it up much less make it work. I read the manual and even though I am an IT guy I was OVERWHELMED to say the least. I was playing around with the front panel as there was no real editor (that I knew of) then and it just wasn’t intuitive to me. I definitely had my “what did I get myself into” moments. I also was thinking I was wasting my valuable practice time as I was literally just learning how to play the damn instrument! I am not a quitter though and several things happened at that point. I found this forum, and someone did a video showing this cool new editor from AlbertA.

For some reason, seeing the video made things click for me kind of like showing the whole big picture as opposed to the small subset view you get at any time on the front panel. I went back to the manual and then learned how to use the editor and front panel concurrently. For those of you who weren’t around back then you have no idea how easy you have it now. There were lots of frustrating moments with MIDI connections and incompatible hardware and it was baptism by fire. That is where this forum SHINES! It is like no other on the internet. I realize much of my frustration was a simple lack of everything guitar but I did feel I had an advantage coming from a programming and computer perspective. Still, it was daunting at the very least.

Fast forward to today and what is available to us. The Axe-FX has evolved quite a bit with its ever expanding parameter list. We now have a foot controller specifically designed to co-exist with the Axe, and Axe-Edit. The landscape is changing almost daily with the upgrades and in such an environment there are always going to be growing pains with associated gear and software. Is Axe-Edit fool proof? Absolutely not. It is so accommodating with regards to how you like to create your work flow that it can become its and your own worst enemy. It is still quite powerful and barring any workarounds to deal with existing bugs, quite impressive. My opinion is Matt has done a remarkable job on the manuals and they are some of the best I have seen in an ever increasing world where most are written by persons that have no real world experience with the equipment being discussed or do not speak English as their primary language. We have all the tools so to speak, much more than ever since I started this journey, and it’s all about how to go about incorporating them in the easiest manner that suits our needs.

So here are some of my thoughts regarding the OP…

I found that when I would get the most frustrated was when I would try to do too much at once. As many have posted, keep it simple at first. It is very easy to get so far down that worm hole that you have lost track of the path you have taken and the result you are seeking.

Get the controller working and able to change presets, engage effects, and use the expression pedals. Leave it there and worry about the fancy stuff later after you have your II running like you wish with the tones you like.

Get the II set up for your tones and again start out simple with just Amp & Cab and expand from there by adding effects. Once that is complete and you are comfortable then expand to some of the more creative configurations, routings, modifiers, etc.

Use Axe-Edit for visual reference and database activities but do so knowing its evolving software and subject to bugs. Do not use it exclusively. Do NOT feel you have to go into every page and know every parameter. Stick to the basics at first. Leave the advanced parameters for when you are advanced if at all! Dohhh :)

USE THE FRONT PANEL! It amazes me that anyone who uses the II live does not do this. It is totally inconceivable to me. At first it can seem unintuitive. It really isn’t. It’s just because you are only seeing a page at a time or a subset of what you are seeing in Axe-Edit. When you learn something new in Axe-Edit take the time to reproduce it on the front panel and vice versa. You become more versatile and it reinforces what you have learned. There is NO EXCUSE for being in a live situation and not knowing how to create a shunt. NONE!

Learn how to back up your presets and settings. Write down any settings you cannot backup.

Use the reset function. It is quite easy to get so far down the path that you cannot remember what you have touched or changed. Step 5 could have had an impact on step 10 and you just didn’t realize it at the time. Document what you do! Reset the system and start over. It’s all trial and error. I spent the last couple days experimenting with Clarkys and Adams preset control examples ad had no clue sometimes what I had done or how I got to particular spot. Reset and start again. I don’t know about you guys but I learn by repetition and not by following someone’s example one time and poof! I have reset my system hundreds of times. I know this is problematic for those with complex pedal settings etc. but they are not the ones having issues with their systems. Experiment, learn, and document.

Reading the manuals from cover to cover will help with your basic knowledge up front but that is about it. USE THEM! Write notes in the margins! It is so easy to just to ask someone here and move on but undoubtedly you will be asking it again in the not too distant future. I originally wrote up my MFC update with pictures for myself and only shared it here because so many were asking the very same questions. I found myself running into the same problem so I documented my successful tasks and even tossed in some pics for visual reference. It’s hard to remember everything in systems that have so much complexity to them. Now I go through my steps and it’s proved to be time saving and fail proof.

Use this forum and the countless guys who offer up their valuable time to answer your questions. Many of which they have answered countless of times previously. Do so in a courteous manner. You are asking for help no? So many these days feel self-entitled simply because they paid a certain price for a piece of gear. Grow up! You bought the gear. If you did your research you know what documentation comes with it and the issues that said gear may be experiencing. If you didn’t, then shame on you.

Be patient. It’s often difficult to get the picture of the issues at hand through written text. Take the time to create videos or clips to help those helping you. And when you resolve the issue with or without the help provided, be thoughtful enough to post it so others may gain from your experience. To take that another step, if you have been helped, take the time to go out of your way and help someone else who may have an issue you can handle.

I still believe this forum is the best of the best with regards to helping others. I know we get a lot of grief on the net but i think that is jealousy and/or sour grapes. Nobody knows that more than me. It has taken several years but I have made some good friends and learned quite a bit along the way from guys who had no business stooping so low as to help a TRUE beginner out. Just look at this thread for example. Everyone jumping in to help the OP using tough love or words of encouragement is amazing. We have a Grammy Award winning artist and touring pro offering up his home and skills to help out a stranger? Are you kidding me? (tip of the hat to you Larry)

Don’t toss your rig. Take the time to properly learn it. You will not regret the decision or time spent. I actually advocate total newbies to guitar purchasing the magic black box. If you take the time and have the patience it can be the greatest learning tool on the market. And quality to boot.

Sorry for rambling, my bad… again!
 
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You know, I am currently building a similar gig, with the Axe and MFC on the way, and your post really concerns me. I have playing over 45 years, and have used every imaginable rig out there. I figured with 384 resets, there's bound to be a dozen or so presets that are gig ready with little or no tweaking.

By the time it's said and done, I will have spent about $5k on this rig. Your experience not only concerns me, it scares me.

Came into this late but I have to add-There definitely are usable out of the box presets. I have played in a zillion bands, 30+ yearsa, every type of band (except the immensely popular here heavy metal) and there are definitel;y some real nice presets.
You might have to turn down the treble a bit or up the bass-. I am so tired of people posting that they don't exist. That's baloney-IMHO. Not saying your exact die for tone-but nice stuff for almost all types as stated.
 
to me, not knowing what FRFR means doesn't equate to being a novice. FRFR is a term that is thrown around this forum, not necessarily an industry standard term. but not knowing its definition, you probably searched the forum or the internet to figure it out, rather than complaining that "FRFR" wasn't defined in the axe fx manual, right? :)

Yeah I searched and found out. I also know that this forum really takes care of its own. Which is the main reason to be patient . You eventually find out what you need.

Now for Cobblers post. That was the best post I have read. No one could have said it better.
 
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Hey JC, as i mentioned before, I'm in Opelika a few hours away from you. I won't be up there for awhile now but I'll be back home Sunday and Monday daytime just packing and getting ready for the next leg of my tour. If you want to take the drive down. I have time Sunday afternoon and early Monday. Not sure I can answer all of your questions but I'd be willing to try if you can deal with me getting ready and packing while working with you. Just let me know.i have a show in Mobile AL saturday night I may not get back to Opelika until miday Sunday. Let me know if you want to come down.
Also I agree, you should start with a simple rig set up first especially if that's what your used to with your amp/pedal rig. Why try to jump into an edge like rig right away if that's not what your used to? I've used huge pedalboard rigs and big rack rigs over the years but I've spent months /years with each type of effect that use. So combining them was a natural progression not just "it's there so I might as well stickit in the set up and use it" it takes time and trial and error to figure out where you like things to go why the should go a certain way and what the rules are so you can break the rules. What effect combinations work for you. But alli of that can be a nasty distraction if you can dial up basic core sounds that your happy with. Start there first. Good luck and we are here for you if you really want help and are willing to work with patience and humility. If not, that's cool too. You can sellit easily and go back to your old setup. No harm no foul. :0)

Wow, I wish I lived a few hours away from Opelika, I'd take you up on that offer in a heartbeat!
 
Wow! I pulled up the forum and 4 pages of comments! I feel like I just got a giant hug and kick in the ass simultaneously. I really appreciate everyone taking time from their busy schedule to rally me on. Mostly, all of the comments have been very helpful.

A little background. I run a studio in Muscle Shoals that provides a location for session musicians such as myself to track and mix for Nashville songwriters and larger studios. We are 2 hours from Nashville. Lots of legendary musicians,producers, and engineers live right here in this small town because they don't want to be in the city, plus because of our rich musical history. Its nice because i can hire guys who are well known, to play on tracks because they all live right here. I am a player before I'm a studio engineer though. There were a couple of "newbie" comments, so I wanted to clarify. I am a newbie to the axe, but I've been playing since I was 17. I'm 40 now. The very kind and generous Larry Mitchell and I had already connected here on the forum because he knows some of these guys I'm referring to and he now lives in the state. (Larry, thank you so much for your generosity. I'm sending a P.M).


Several members asked about specific problems. I am going to do as suggested by so many and reset the machine and go back to square one. I'm going to spend time with the manual and the unit, starting with a basic amp and cab. I'll address exact problems when they arrive with the addition of videos and/or photos.

I agree, there are good presets. My issues have been more with programming modifiers, CC's, etc.

Clarky- thanks for the words of encouragement and I look forward to reading your post about midi and modifiers.

iaresee - kind comments. Thanks for the tips and the link.

Karmakarmakarma- great advice. Nice to meet a fellow worship leader.

Mrguitarabuse- "stop whining and get my stuff together?" Thanks for that insightful commentary. :)

Cobbler-great post and yes, I'm ashamed for not knowing how to make a shunt in a live setting.

Henryrobinett- I completely agree about customer support. When I make an investment like this, I expect there to be resources to help me learn to use it. This forum is great, but 20 or 30 videos on their website, like Ableton or Serato have done with their products, sure would be helpful.

Chrisallen8888 - you've helped me on numerous occasions, and I sorta see your point, but don't agree in regards to tutorials. I have been engineering since the days of tape, but when ProTools came out I wanted to learn it because I knew it was the way of the future. Believe me there were several times I was just as frustrated. However, resources such as Sweetwaters
tech support, Digidesigns tech support (before Avid), and multiple videos though Digidesign and Groove3 (formerly ProToolsVideos.com, helped me learn something that was completely foreign to me. It's not that I didn't want to take the time to read, it's that a lot of stuff was foreign to me. I'm a very visual learner. I can read something 100 times and not have it soak in as well as one time being shown how. Fractal can do what they choose. I just made a recommendation for those who may be like me. I want to see the company succeed.

I admit I got frustrated and spoke hastily. I plan to give the unit the time and attention it deserves. I have too much invested. I parted with my beloved Drz, and a Fender that had one of the last speakers that Ted Weber personally made before he passed (talked to him on the phone and described the sound I wanted). Id hate to backtrack. I do think this thing is the future.

Again, thank you for all of you for the "tough love" and not letting me do something stupid. I'm just ignorant to the product. I'm going to change that and learn it inside and out. Then I can fairly judge whether it is for me or not, based on tone, or some other factor besides my impatience.
 
cool man. i just posted a few vids about the mfc and expression pedals in this axe ii forum. maybe some of what i discuss regarding CC#s and assigning things can help you out in general. otherwise definitely post specific questions or a video (shaky, crappy, whatever, anything is helpful) of you describing what's going on. don't need to show you, just the axe front panel or whatever the problem is.

i know where people are coming from when they say Fractal or any manufacturer should take the time to do videos or tutorials... but do you know how long it actually takes to make that stuff? the videos i make are far from my professional standard, but to do the 2 MFC vids and edit and publish literally took me about 24 hours total - not counting planning the actual topics and setup.

so can you imagine if Fractal Audio made this amazing product we know and love.... but delayed its release until it had videos and tutorials? screw that give me the axe and i'll figure it out myself!!! just doing the manual i know takes a very long time.

i think it's up to us, the community, to help each other out and determine who knows what their talking about, who to listen to. especially in today's age of youtube and internet, we can create videos and tutorials for each other.

look at the wiki: only a handful of people contribute (i haven't, unfortunately) yet there are always requests to "hey do this research and add this to the wiki, yek!" well anyone can do that research and add to the wiki! anyways, just saying lets all help each other out!
 
Yeah videos. They're not that difficult. I have a guitar instructional site and I do videos all the time. If you have one or two people assisting it'd go faster. Some small companies have supporters do them. They might beta testers. If its worth doing, it's worth doing right. There are many divisions in a company: R&D, quality control, technical, assembly, marketing and promotion, customer support. But the division that writes manuals. What's that? That's the last thing thought of and it shouldnt be.
 
videos CAN be "not difficult" to make, but if you only have 1 camera that doesn't move that simplifies things radically.

i would think a product demo tutorial would need at least 3 cameras - 1 on the host, 1 on the axe screen and 1 on the MFC controller or guitar neck, etc. dump those all into your editing program, sync them up, choose the shots, mix the multi-tracked audio... it really adds up and takes a while... and that's assuming all your content is amazing, you know how to set your camera and add lights if necessary...
 
Glad to read there are others who feel that the Axe-Fx is pretty unwieldy to use. Some of it can't be avoided because it has so many features, but far too many are of the "designed for engineers" sort.

I loathe the 1980s rack device interface on the Axe-Fx. Poor button placement, bad navigation controls, not enough knobs for adjustment, no relation between screen and physical controls.
 
The biggest problem is perception. People want all the possibilities of the Axe Fx, but they want it to simultaneously be as easy to use as an analog rig. While designers continue to improve on the easy of use aspect, it will never be as easy as plug in and play.

Learning to use the Axe Fx is much like learning a language. You can communicate just fine in English, and of course that will aid you in learning French or Spanish, but you still have to dig in and learn the nuisances of the next language. Complaining the Axe Fx is not enough like your analog rig is akin to complaining that Spanish has different grammatical rules.

You chose to go down this path and should have done more homework prior to buying. If the unit does not suit a user, they are free to sell it and move on. Why people feel the need to rant and rave is beyond me. Do a search of Fender Stratocaster on eBay, there are thousands of people moving on from their Strat everyday with far less drama.
 
Glad to read there are others who feel that the Axe-Fx is pretty unwieldy to use. Some of it can't be avoided because it has so many features, but far too many are of the "designed for engineers" sort.

I loathe the 1980s rack device interface on the Axe-Fx. Poor button placement, bad navigation controls, not enough knobs for adjustment, no relation between screen and physical controls.

Those are pretty generic complaints in my humble opinion. Would you care to expand on them by giving examples and how you would improve them?
 
chrisallen8888 - very true. But most of the videos don't have to be more than one camera. A lot of these videos are one camera and serve the purpose well. Have seen any of the LF videos? He does them himself while he's talking and demonstrating. Pretty lame but it serves it's purpose.

FAS is a tiny company but they're big enough to get it done through beta team members or other volunteers. They could make it happen if it were a priority.
 
Honestly if it were that hard to use there wouldn't be as many of us that live it. It takes some time, but I find it very intuitive once you get how to create patches. Not any harder than any other top end piece I've owned. And a lot easier than most I'd say. Patience!
 
JC - here's a couple of links
this is the thread which goes through the very basics of MIDI and how it relates to the Axe
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/54821-basic-midi-controllers.html

and this is a thread which is essentially a diary of my experiences with the Axe / MFC almost from day 1
in here you'll see my plans and experiments.. the things that went wrong..
the problems I encountered and how I overcame them..
you'll also hear clips of presets.. and as they go through the threat you'll hear them getting better and better
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-preset-exchange/50243-axe2-preset-building.html

that thread is still 'live' so I'm adding to it all the time.. new experiences / ideas etc..
the killer thing with that thread is that you can see a very clear improvement path..
and now I think I can say hand on heart that I have the Axe hitting my own personal sweet spot..
but jeez.. it took some time and was seriously frustrating at times..
now though I can dial in pretty nice tones quite quickly..
don't lose sight of the fact that not only are you learning to opperate / configure a new box..
you are also learning what it sounds like.. and due to the vast spread of available permutations.. this really does take time...
now that I have the Axe sounding how I like and all the presets I need are configured, the pressure is essentially off..
- cos I need the Axe ready for touring and for the next album [which I've just started - to the relief of the rest of the band..]..
so now I can noodle with it and experiment with less urgency..
and I think it's in these coming 'more leisurely' months where I'll start tripping over the real magic..

familiarity breeds cool tones..
 
It's a bit difficult for me to understand what's confusing about the front panel.
Wheel, Enter, Exit, Directional Buttons store and recall. That's all I use. I'm doing fine.
Know where all the stuff is? They give you tons of options so there's a lot to places to look. No miracle there.
 
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It's a bit difficult for me to understand what's confusing about the front panel.
Wheel, Enter, Exit, Directional Buttons store and recall. That's all I use. I'm doing fine.
Know where all the stuff is? They give you tons of options so there's a lot to places to look. No miracle there.

I think some folk prefer the editor because things are easier to see..
so it's a freindlier editing environment..
using the front panel means that you need to know where to go to find stuff and only a small selection of parms are viewable at any one time..

personally I'm happy to use the front panel..
but I prefer the editor..
I do my preset creation via the editor..
the front panel is only ever used for things the editor can't control and when I need to make adjustments when I'm away from my own studio
 
because i spent the money.... this should be easy to use.

I don't think that's really the problem. It's more like, "Because I'm a guitarist and only care about the end result, the gear should be as easy to use as what I'm used to using: amp and pedals." Many coming from that kind of rig or from simpler MFX with more intuitive interfaces (GT-100, POD) are going to face a steep learning curve. The fact of the matter is, the Axe interface isn't exactly simple compared to other gear. "What do you mean I have to draw in a bunch of shunts just to get signal from input to output?" There isn't another guitar processor out there where you need to do that. But of course, there isn't another guitar processor out there that offers the flexibility of the Axe when it comes to routing. It's a trade off.

FRFR is a term that is thrown around this forum, not necessarily an industry standard term.

It might not be an industry term, but it originated long before this forum or the Axe even existed. First person I heard it from was Kewlpack from TheStompBox.net when he was doing his modeler and mfx comparisons ages ago. For all I know, he originated the term. But it certainly isn't unique to this forum.
 
Hi
I was in the same boat awhile back. I have always been a tone purest. I have a bogner XTC classic that I kept but the fractal is quite good. For example I use the friedman hbe with a Mesa 4x12 amp block with vintage 30s. It reacts just like my bogner. I tweaked the power bias and sag so it feels like a real amp. The trick is small changes. Start off simple ,,, amp and cab block.
Don't give up. It is a great unit.
 
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