Frustrated to the point of putting it all for sale

I know that if you are experienced with ProTools and hundreds of plug ins that shows two things; first that you are definitely smart enough to grasp this and secondly that you invested a lot of time learning how to use all of that stuff. Perhaps you've been doing it so long that you've forgotten or underestimated the time you invested learning all of that stuff.

Like others have said it sounds like you are trying to do too much too soon based on your time restrictions. Instead of worrying about modifiers and controllers dial in a simple patch that is based on your primary rig. Once you get that done you will at least have one solid patch to go to when you either want or need to play.

And I'm not buying into the concept of this being too complicated for you at all. I'm no rocket scientist and the thing is extremely simple to navigate and create patches on once you grasp the workflow and layout. It doesn't take a genius to master this thing contrary to popular belief. When people talk about how simple a pedal board is compared to the AxeFXII I roll my eyes because if you take any simple pedal board and put the same exact effects in a patch it takes a matter of about 5 minutes to build. When you dial it in you should look at it exactly how you would if you had that gear in front of you meaning stay out of the advanced parameter pages. The biggest pitfall for new adopters (and even long time users) is the compulsion to turn every single parameter on every page because if its there then it has to be adjusted. If your pedal has 5 knobs on it then try to use just the 5 parameters and dial it in from there and when you get it as good as you can then move on to the next pedal or effect block or whatever. Build the basic preset and get it working and play it then you can tweak on it over the next few weeks or whatever to learn or improve it.

You know as well as anyone that you aren't going to be an expert on every parameter of every block over night. I'll just add that there is no need to either. Get one patch working and play it and enjoy it, there is no rush to build a thousand crazy patches in one sitting. Now if you can't get it to feel right or sound right then I'd suggest selling it, but it sounds more like frustration to me. I have absolute faith that you will get it because if I can do it then you surely can.
 
It can take a bit of time to get used to the interface. I've been using digital gear for about 8 or 9 years, so I read the manual before even purchasing the unit. When it got here, I jumped right in and it made a lot of sense, from a navigation perspective.

Basic stuff on the axe is about as intuitive as it can be. To make a shunt, you select "shunt" as a block. To connect a wire, you hit enter, which flashes the next block in the chain. You can then use the nav buttons to go up or down to connect the wire to a different row and then just hit enter to finish. There are shortcuts for these, but I don't know how you would make that process more intuitive.

The IA programming can get pretty intense. Knowing the ins and outs of midi has become more common over the years, but not so long ago that knowledge could actually land you a job as a touring tech. The things to remember here are to break it down to small digestible chunks. I haven't used the MFC, but I thought it simplified a lot of the CC programming by autoloading.

I hope you spend some time with the system and start with small basic things and learn them well. After that, it gets a lot easier. If you decide to sell it, I'm extremely interested in your MFC/Footboard/Mission pedals :)
 
seriously dude, just sell the damn thing already… it really frustrates ME to see a thread like this after all the help you've received here. i've helped you a lot on this forum and many times, the answer was "read the manual" like in this thread: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/54530-setting-up-midi-foot-controller-misson.html

you overreact and that's kind of irritating, like here:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/53902-dont-let-me-throw-out-window-please.html
throw it out the window? really?

and you post 2 of the same thread, maybe thinking you'll get better/more answers:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/51359-please-help-me-get-6-installed.html
and
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/51356-installing-presets.html
you had both of these threads going at the same time about the same topic. i kept asking you questions about your setup and gear but you never answer them. i linked you to the axe ii wiki and suddenly it just worked.

April 21, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/rigs-routing/50871-line-6-wireless.html
and
May 29, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/53235-front-rear-input.html
both about the same topic, running a wireless to the front or rear of the axe. same answers in the first one, but you had to ask again a month later. again, never replying to let us know if you were successful.

April 24, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/51081-floorboard-midi-foot-controller.html
and
June 11, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/53863-where-mount-midi-foot-controller.html
2 of the same thread again. your first one got no responses, but instead of bumping it you created a new one. not the end of the world, but adds to forum clutter.



you said in this thread that you're trying to create the edge's pedal board. that may have been 1/2 joking, but do you honestly think creating a complex effects rig won't be difficult?

yes, the axe can be frustrating, but you have to put the time into it and you have to learn.

to be honest, if you aren't "tech illiterate" and you run all those plugins and protools (oh my!), the axe shouldn't be difficult to use at all. i really don't understand why you are getting so frustrated. maybe you are approaching the axefx as if it was protools or some other plugin you've used before, but that's the #1 mistake everyone makes with this unit.

if you're a player and not a programmer, then maybe this isn't for you. sell it. but if you want the best sound out there (in many opinions) then you are the one that has to understand the unit. it's not Fractal Audio's responsibility to create videos or other resources to teach you what many need years of experience to learn. it's your job. the manuals are there. the forum is there. we continue to help you with all of your questions, repeated or not.

"I want to learn to use the Axefx, but it's taking me longer than I thought it would." then just take more time to learn it. use a basic rig at the gig while you tweak the axe at home.

couldn't remember how to make a shunt? that really should be basic knowledge. should Fractal have made a video for that too? maybe you were just excited or in the panic at the gig, you forgot something basic. that's happened to me too, but that is a shortcoming of you, not the axefx. that's like saying "i forgot how to turn up the volume knob on my guitar."

if my post pushes you over the edge and makes you sell it immediately, i don't apologize. i'm trying to be real here. i'm sure you do have the ability to learn and use the axefx, but maybe it's just too overwhelming for you right now.

but i suggest not selling it. use a regular amp at the gig for now. take a break on the axefx. then in a few weeks or so, revisit it. start from scratch. reload all the default presets and reset the mfc and just start over. approach it with a fresh mindset and don't assume anything. don't think "protools does it like this" or "the last time i used the axe i did this…" just start completely over, but after a break.

we will still be here to answer your questions, but don't be surprised if the answer you get from me is "look at page 18 in the manual."

^this.
Also, its not all going to make sense just because you read the manual. You have to apply what you have learned. Every time I read something I did not already know about the Axe-fx or MFC-101, I immediately try it on the hardware.
Then I learn it well enough to remember or I make a preset in Axe-edit and name it appropriately. Experience with the unit is the only thing that will make it become second nature. And as for the whole Edge pedal board, he spent days working with Matt.
RTFM isn't a one time thing either. Read it every day until your sick of it, then reference it trying to help others and you will master your unit, and Axe-fx too. :lol
 
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I would agree that the front interface of the Axe is non-intuitive and can be frustrated. Personally I do not have a problem with it, but being a programmer, I would redesign it completely. The AxeEdit is much better, but still there is a need for a much simpler program (or 'easy' and 'expert' modes for the Axe's LCD interface). In this regard I like what the author of AxePad does (for iPads).

The same goes to the manual, there is certainly a need for a Getting Started or a set of (video)Tutorials for users. (If the company where I work would sell our complicated software without them, probably I never had money to purchase the Axe :mrgreen we are also had a KB system and a forum, but after we took time and developed a set of 9 lessons, the forum posts were decreased up to 70% ! )

My advise to the topic starter: if you like the sound of the Axe, don't sell and use the AxeEdit
for creating patches for all possible cases to reach to a point where you do not need to touch the axe's
controls (beside the voulme, patch switchers) on stage, or just select necessary patches via the footcontroller.
This will make your life a lot simpler on stage.
 
seriously dude, just sell the damn thing already… it really frustrates ME to see a thread like this after all the help you've received here. i've helped you a lot on this forum and many times, the answer was "read the manual" like in this thread: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/54530-setting-up-midi-foot-controller-misson.html

you overreact and that's kind of irritating, like here:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/53902-dont-let-me-throw-out-window-please.html
throw it out the window? really?

and you post 2 of the same thread, maybe thinking you'll get better/more answers:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/51359-please-help-me-get-6-installed.html
and
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/51356-installing-presets.html
you had both of these threads going at the same time about the same topic. i kept asking you questions about your setup and gear but you never answer them. i linked you to the axe ii wiki and suddenly it just worked.

April 21, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/rigs-routing/50871-line-6-wireless.html
and
May 29, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/53235-front-rear-input.html
both about the same topic, running a wireless to the front or rear of the axe. same answers in the first one, but you had to ask again a month later. again, never replying to let us know if you were successful.

April 24, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/51081-floorboard-midi-foot-controller.html
and
June 11, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/53863-where-mount-midi-foot-controller.html
2 of the same thread again. your first one got no responses, but instead of bumping it you created a new one. not the end of the world, but adds to forum clutter.



you said in this thread that you're trying to create the edge's pedal board. that may have been 1/2 joking, but do you honestly think creating a complex effects rig won't be difficult?

yes, the axe can be frustrating, but you have to put the time into it and you have to learn.

to be honest, if you aren't "tech illiterate" and you run all those plugins and protools (oh my!), the axe shouldn't be difficult to use at all. i really don't understand why you are getting so frustrated. maybe you are approaching the axefx as if it was protools or some other plugin you've used before, but that's the #1 mistake everyone makes with this unit.

if you're a player and not a programmer, then maybe this isn't for you. sell it. but if you want the best sound out there (in many opinions) then you are the one that has to understand the unit. it's not Fractal Audio's responsibility to create videos or other resources to teach you what many need years of experience to learn. it's your job. the manuals are there. the forum is there. we continue to help you with all of your questions, repeated or not.

"I want to learn to use the Axefx, but it's taking me longer than I thought it would." then just take more time to learn it. use a basic rig at the gig while you tweak the axe at home.

couldn't remember how to make a shunt? that really should be basic knowledge. should Fractal have made a video for that too? maybe you were just excited or in the panic at the gig, you forgot something basic. that's happened to me too, but that is a shortcoming of you, not the axefx. that's like saying "i forgot how to turn up the volume knob on my guitar."

if my post pushes you over the edge and makes you sell it immediately, i don't apologize. i'm trying to be real here. i'm sure you do have the ability to learn and use the axefx, but maybe it's just too overwhelming for you right now.

but i suggest not selling it. use a regular amp at the gig for now. take a break on the axefx. then in a few weeks or so, revisit it. start from scratch. reload all the default presets and reset the mfc and just start over. approach it with a fresh mindset and don't assume anything. don't think "protools does it like this" or "the last time i used the axe i did this…" just start completely over, but after a break.

we will still be here to answer your questions, but don't be surprised if the answer you get from me is "look at page 18 in the manual."

Damn. This kinda hurt, because I have really appreciated your help. I can understand your frustration though. You're right , I am guilty of double posting a time or two if I didn't get the answer I was looking for. I forget to "bump". I am not totally down with forum etiquette. I did buy the Trailertrash board after that post regarding the MFC.

It may not be Fractals responsibility to create videos to show how to use their product. I do however, recommend it. I can't be the only one who has left overwhelmed. There's a reason why companies like Avid, Ableton, Serato, etc have video tutorials On their website. It's to help people like me who get more from someone showing them how than reading and trying to figure it out. It was just a recommendation. I paid $30/ month at Groove3.com for over a year, and learned a lot about various software. Theres obviously a market for the videos because they add many each month.

I am going to take the advice here, go back to scratch and start over and start basic. I sold 2 nice tube amps and several boutique pedals and jumped in expecting to pick up right where I'd left off with the analog gear. Naive on my part.
 
I think it IS the shortcoming of a manufacturer to not have quick, simple getting started manuals and videos too, perhaps, to get the complete and total novice in. The mistake too many companies, like Roland, made was to have engineers, Japanese ones as that, write the english manuals. That never works well. They need someone ELSE to come in and write in basic, simple language, how the dang thing works. The engineers and or designers are too close and can't put themselves easily in the place of not knowing what they know. And you have to imagine not knowing the first thing about it to effectively teach someone who truly doesn't know, how to operate it. Some people are technically savvy, most aren't. One shouldn't blame them. One should work harder to find more effective ways of teaching.

That said I THINK Fractals done a pretty good job. The problem is there's too much data, for the uninitiated, and not enough cross indexing and layers of simple quick start, overview, to intermediate, to advanced application. Some people (most?) are visual learners; show me how people and others have enough vocabulary, nomenclature to understand the manuals. If FAS wants to keep growing they can't simply market to programmers. This is a guitar tool, hopefully for actual guitar players. It doesn't make any sense to say if you want to play and not be a programmer sell it.
 
Hey JC, as i mentioned before, I'm in Opelika a few hours away from you. I won't be up there for awhile now but I'll be back home Sunday and Monday daytime just packing and getting ready for the next leg of my tour. If you want to take the drive down. I have time Sunday afternoon and early Monday. Not sure I can answer all of your questions but I'd be willing to try if you can deal with me getting ready and packing while working with you. Just let me know.i have a show in Mobile AL saturday night I may not get back to Opelika until miday Sunday. Let me know if you want to come down.
Also I agree, you should start with a simple rig set up first especially if that's what your used to with your amp/pedal rig. Why try to jump into an edge like rig right away if that's not what your used to? I've used huge pedalboard rigs and big rack rigs over the years but I've spent months /years with each type of effect that use. So combining them was a natural progression not just "it's there so I might as well stickit in the set up and use it" it takes time and trial and error to figure out where you like things to go why the should go a certain way and what the rules are so you can break the rules. What effect combinations work for you. But alli of that can be a nasty distraction if you can dial up basic core sounds that your happy with. Start there first. Good luck and we are here for you if you really want help and are willing to work with patience and humility. If not, that's cool too. You can sellit easily and go back to your old setup. No harm no foul. :0)
 
Damn. This kinda hurt, because I have really appreciated your help.

i guess it's a bit of tough love, but you need to take your time. believe me, i can understand your frustration too. i'm glad you'll start from scratch and give it another chance.

and i, along with others here, will still help you when you need it.
 
I think it IS the shortcoming of a manufacturer to not have quick, simple getting started manuals and videos too, perhaps, to get the complete and total novice in.

maybe this piece of gear isn't for the total novice.


also i think someone recommended using axe edit solely to edit your patches? i absolutely disagree with that since you will be using the axe live (soon!). if you only know how to use axe edit, when you're on stage without a computer, you won't be able to solve problems that WILL come up. always make sure you know how to do things on the front panel!
 
having just come from imho a very intuitive boss gt100, was a little daunted trying to program the axe fx 2 which i got a couple of weeks ago. as such i am just taking baby steps and had a mental list of things i needed to learn first to get to a working base line.
- update firmware via axe edit and perform backups and preset loading.
- chain up a list of blocks from input to output (i.e. adding blocks, shunts and cables) via front panel. My blocks are currently fixed at wah-cpr-pha-drv-amp-cab-cho-flg-dly-rev for all my presets so far with only drv, amp, cab, rev being different for each preset.
- get my ground control pro talking with the axe fx 2, with presets and instant access (the youtube video GCP and AXE-FX Basic Setup - YouTube was extremely helpful).
- set up the i/o controls for my instant access and expression pedals to work.
- set two expression pedals to control delay level (this took me a while cos i didn’t realise the parameter to control was input gain, not mix) and wah.
- switch delay tempo from quarter to dotted-eighths vice versa.
i figure that just the above would keep me going for a while.
next on my list would be to figure out what all the parameters on the amp and cab blocks actually do. am sticking mainly to tweaking only the amp block drive, tone and level parameters at the moment. for cabs i just keep scrolling until i get the tone i want.
then it will be on to tone matching, parallel chains, axe edit and beyond..
 
but alas, all of the "IA's, modifiers, etc" have overwhelmed me..

dude.... I am about to write a little something for a different thread that is all about MIDI, modifiers and how they relate to the Axe and MFC
this will help you I promise..

also.. I know where you are with this...
I went through the whole dispare trip too..
and at one point I was considering selling it too..

so what stopped me?
I just knew that what I was looking for was in the Axe
so I kept the faith.. stuck at it.. and finally after a little over 2 months I got the unit to sing..

keep the faith dude... we'll all help you through
 
Hey JC, as i mentioned before, I'm in Opelika a few hours away from you. I won't be up there for awhile now but I'll be back home Sunday and Monday daytime just packing and getting ready for the next leg of my tour. If you want to take the drive down. I have time Sunday afternoon and early Monday. Not sure I can answer all of your questions but I'd be willing to try if you can deal with me getting ready and packing while working with you. Just let me know.i have a show in Mobile AL saturday night I may not get back to Opelika until miday Sunday. Let me know if you want to come down.
Also I agree, you should start with a simple rig set up first especially if that's what your used to with your amp/pedal rig. Why try to jump into an edge like rig right away if that's not what your used to? I've used huge pedalboard rigs and big rack rigs over the years but I've spent months /years with each type of effect that use. So combining them was a natural progression not just "it's there so I might as well stickit in the set up and use it" it takes time and trial and error to figure out where you like things to go why the should go a certain way and what the rules are so you can break the rules. What effect combinations work for you. But alli of that can be a nasty distraction if you can dial up basic core sounds that your happy with. Start there first. Good luck and we are here for you if you really want help and are willing to work with patience and humility. If not, that's cool too. You can sellit easily and go back to your old setup. No harm no foul. :0)

What a great guy and great offer! Larry - I'm in North Carolina and I would drive down just to speak with you on your experience! Course I would also be hoping a crumb of your talent would come with the wisdom. It's only what, 20 hours?
 
JC, maybe next time you can make a video that shows the problems and difficulties you're having. maybe trying to type everything out is preventing us from helping you fully.

but maybe just talking to the camera and explaining what's wrong would help.
 
JC, maybe next time you can make a video that shows the problems and difficulties you're having. maybe trying to type everything out is preventing us from helping you fully.

but maybe just talking to the camera and explaining what's wrong would help.

This is what we all should do. Then a video with what fixed the problem. This would probably eliminate a lot of questions, and shortend the answers.
 
+1
This is what we do sometimes in the beta team, to visualize an issue somebody's experiencing.
A simple 15 - 30 sec video, made with a mobile phone, blurry, shaky etc. can be so much more helpful than a full written page.
 
Damn. This kinda hurt, because I have really appreciated your help. I can understand your frustration though. You're right , I am guilty of double posting a time or two if I didn't get the answer I was looking for. I forget to "bump". I am not totally down with forum etiquette. I did buy the Trailertrash board after that post regarding the MFC.
That was honest and humble. You get huge points for that.

I am going to take the advice here, go back to scratch and start over and start basic. I sold 2 nice tube amps and several boutique pedals and jumped in expecting to pick up right where I'd left off with the analog gear. Naive on my part.

My general recommendation is to always start simple. Ignore the options, because the options can overwhelm you.

I tend to treat the Axe-Fx like a real rig when I'm feeling overwhelmed. I have 3 go-to cab recipes. I use one of those. And I pick an amp. And that's it. I play that for a bit, understand it, and then start adding and changing things. It really simplifies things in my head if I'm not changing amps and cabs at the same time. That's why I stick to those three recipes, which BTW, are all based on Mr. Peterson's excellent NF/FF mix approach. Scott has even done a video on this approach. See:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...ilding-amp-cab-preset-axe-fx-ii-tweaking.html

Aptly named, eh?
 
I dont know. i must admit the "couldnt remember how to add a shunt" comment made me go WTF - I really think programming the AFX via the front pannel shoul dbe something everyone does FIRST - before touching Axe-Edit as you may have to uset hat method (and I find it far more intuative than Axe-Edit but then Im strange). I run Pro Tools LE - and can manage it at a very basic leveland find the AFX by comparrison to be a breeze.

Stick to Amp & Cab (if you go FRFR) and basic FX, programmed rom the Front pannel and not touching advanced parameters until you get used to it. Should take anyone with a basic grasp of hardware/software programming around an hour to get that and it will generate great sounds just at that level. Then you can play with other parameters, modifyers, midi implimentation etx - which does take a little longer to sort through.
 
this really is awesome....

the entire FAS community suddenly turns into the 7th cavalry, riding to the rescue...

I can honestly say that I have never seen anything like this anywhere else..

EDIT: it's funny cos with most 'stuff' you can say "yeah I play Fender etc" and the other guy is like "yeah I got one of those too"
but when you play Ibanez you kinda become part of a clan, especially in the JemFest days
and that was about as close to this as it got...
but when you get an Axe it's like there's a whole baptism, mixing of blood thing going on when you become one of the bretheren.. it's a kinda bond that's in a whole different league..
and it's seriously cool....

it's like becomnig a member of some underground cult.. the Fractilluminati.. lol..
 
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I am really enjoying this thread, particularly Chris' tough love advice. I mentioned earlier that I am new to this forum. I am currently using an analogue pedal board with about 18 pedals. Suffice it to say, I do alot of tap dancing. Once I bought an iPad, I bought the Digitech iPB-10, and it is exremely easy to use. I have gigged with it numerous times, and it's sounds rather good for my needs-Classic Rock and dance music.

If I recall correctly, I learned about the Axe over at my main haunt, The Gear Page. That, of course, brought me here. My rack and floor units will be on the way when Fractal's people return from vacation. I already bought the 12" RCF monitor and am quite pleased with its sound. Next up will be a Pedaltrain Pro and three Mission pedals.

In the meantime, the input you guys provide is stellar. As Clarky mentioned, it's like the 7th Calvary is coming to the rescue! While a couple of people would simply have the OP jump off the bandwagon, most of you are very encouraging.

I like that.
 
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