Frustrated to the point of putting it all for sale

J

JC_MuscleShoals

Inspired
So, I went in to this super excited and the frustration is getting the best of me. I am going to give it one more go at it and really spend time in the manual this week. I am spending all of this time learning to program when I really want to be playing. I don't have lots of spare time.

It's not that I'm tech illiterate. I own a high end studio running ProTools HD, hundreds of plugins, virtual instruments, etc. and I have no problems with using it. My hope is that, if i give up and sell it, instead of those at Fractal thinking, "screw him", they'll see there are those who need a more intuitive product, OR a good set of videos that go step by step to accomplish most goals. Similar to those at Learn Pro Tools, Logic Pro, Ableton Live and more - Training and Tutorial Videos videos. That would be nice for the Axe.

Because Fractal has no phone support, I have been using this forum, which has been immensely helpful, but alas, all of the "IA's, modifiers, etc" have overwhelmed me. I took my Fender Princeton Reverb out the other night and it sure was liberating. I have invested so much to build the "perfect rig", i really hate to give up.

If I decide to sell, I'll post it here on the forum first. It's a couple of months old, newest firmware, MFC, 2 Mission pedals (1 week old-one with a switch and one without), brand new Trailertrash board with lightweight heavy duty bag, 4 space Gator hardshell case, Line 6 G90 digital wireless (2 months old bought to go with it), custom patch bay that puts all AxeFX I/O's on front of rack and 1 QSC k10 FRFR. For someone who didnt want to wait on the waiting list, its a great setup. I don't have a clue what to ask for it all.

Anyway, frustration is getting the best of me and if I don't feel differently in the next week or so, I may throw in the towel. I appreciate everyone's help here though. I almost wish I could hire someone to set it all so I can just plug and play, which is all I ever really wanted to do. I'm a player not a programmer.

Sunday at church when I couldn't get any sound out of it really pushed me over the edge. (I didn't bring the MFC because we were only doing basic songs requiring no tap dancing on pedals. I had set up a volume block for one of the expression pedals and no sound came out. Then I deleted the block but couldn't remember how to make a shunt or connecting wire.) I want to learn to use the Axefx, but it's taking me longer than I thought it would.
 
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Dude, I really wanted to help you but...that wall of text...man...maybe break it up in to paragraphs? That's hard to digest.
 
You know, I am currently building a similar gig, with the Axe and MFC on the way, and your post really concerns me. I have playing over 45 years, and have used every imaginable rig out there. I figured with 384 resets, there's bound to be a dozen or so presets that are gig ready with little or no tweaking.

By the time it's said and done, I will have spent about $5k on this rig. Your experience not only concerns me, it scares me.
 
dank said:
You know, I am currently building a similar gig, with the Axe and MFC on the way, and your post really concerns me. I have playing over 45 years, and have used every imaginable rig out there. I figured with 384 resets, there's bound to be a dozen or so presets that are gig ready with little or no tweaking.

By the time it's said and done, I will have spent about $5k on this rig. Your experience not only concerns me, it scares me.
Click to expand...

I think the secret is to read the manuals, and the wiki page and try things out as you read it, I have a few friends who had no clue what Midi was and were able to set both the Axe and MFC to do everything they needed, i have always found the Axe to be easy to use, and never even bother to use the Axe Edit, but my patches are fairly simple..anyways read the manuals guys, you'll probably find everything you need there, any piece of gear that does as much as the AXE II can't be learned in a few minutes, with the manual, wiki, and questions here at the forum anyone should be able to get it working properly for their needs.

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=Axe-Fx_II_Wiki_Home
 
Honestly, if you just don't get the in depth stuff, it's really not that big of a deal. That comes with time and experience. If you try to cram it all into your brain when you're new to the unit, all you're going to do is confuse and frustrate yourself.

Start with a basic amp and cab block. Pick an amp you like, pick an appropriate cab, and then dial the amp sim in with the basic controls until you're happy with the tone. The in depth stuff is there for anyone who wants to use it, and it's unbelievably awesome to have it there, but by the same token, it's also not necessary to use it, as the default settings are usually just fine and a little tweaking of the basic controls will get you where you want to go.

You'll be amazed how easy the Axe II is to use and program once you familiarize yourself with it and get comfortable with everything. Until then, just keep things simple and I'm sure you'll come up with results you're happy with.
 
You havent discussed your actual problem. I am no guru and have no problems getting decent sounds. I do know axe/fractal dont play well with pro tools on many levels, which I find strange, but that doesnt affect me.
 
I dare say many thousands of these units have been sold since the beginning, the vast majority love them. But you do have to spend some time on the basics. Placing and connecting blocks, learning the menu structure. It's not hard but it is necessary. Me, I learn very little without repetition. And more repetition!

I've been where you were Sunday - breaking out in a cold sweat trying to alter something on the fly. Its no fun. I've gotten to a point where I maintain a small set of presets I use all the time. And during my "Axe-Time", non-practice time that I dedicate to maintaining my system, I try to get everything down pat so it will work at a gig. And then I back it up.

Reading the forum can be overwhelming. There are very talented and very smart folks who venture into areas of complexity that aren't needed for my purposes. I try to keep it simple. Just because I CAN do something doesn't mean I HAVE to do it. So I keep my presets simple and my footswitch layouts straightforward.

I hope you give it a few more shots, because it CAN be the rig of a lifetime for you!
 
I found it to be a pretty simple set-up.
Don't overcomplicate things.
Just the presets alone are plenty to get you up and running for playing out.

Are you using Axe Edit?
I can't do anything from the little screen,
way too complicated for myself, while Axe Edit makes
setting up patches a breeze.

However, if you're having trouble remembering how to make a shunt I
suggest you take a small step back and play around with it at home
some more.

The Princeton preset is great, too.
 
Hate to hear you're struggling, and maybe this won't be the most popular piece of advice here, but if you aren't enjoying playing and you're spending so much time not getting what you want, find whatever does it for you! If I was having that much grief with it, I'd have long since moved on to the next square on the board (or back to the last one that was working). For whatever reason, the Axe Fx isn't the answer for everyone, hell, nothing is.

As an example, the other player in my band tried a POD setup some time back, and hated all the pages and menus. When I offered him use of my Eleven Rack after I bought the Axe Ultra, he kept it for one day and brought it back saying "now I remember why I hate those." No judgement on him, he's a good player and an honest guy. But he now uses a pedal board with more buttons total than are on my MFC, 8 or 10 pedals, a snake pit of cords, and that's before he ever gets to his amp. He struggles to get his tone within the volume he can turn up to without killing us. But that's what he likes, and it works for him. When I look at all that stuff I say "now I remember why I hate that!" The Axe Fx isn't for him, and all that analog mess is no longer for me. Neither of us is wrong.

I can't imagine what is keeping you from getting your sounds, it looks like you have put in the effort. I absolutely love my Axe II rig. But that having been said, I say this: nothing is worth not enjoying the few minutes in life you get to spend with a guitar in your hands. Get something that lets you play.

I have to add, though... there just isn't anything else like this out there. If you can stick around until that "aha moment" strikes, the world will move. Really.
 
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Not trying to hijack the OP's thread, but thanks for the simple words of encouragement. For me, I play in a band that is primarily classic party rock and modern dance music. I would like to think that the developers of the Axe expect many users to utilize their wares right out of the gate in the real world and in real working bands.
 
^^ exactly what DLM says. When I first bought my Ultra I was like "holy mother of god, what have I done!". I've always been one for knobs and if not for AxEdit even with its quirks I would not have bought it. I've since read wikis and followed the forum and learned a lot especially from the incredibly engaged AxeFx users here. I now own the II and love it more than the ultra. I've also learned that I don't NEED all the extra controls which admittedly was and still is daunting at times and I can get great tones with the basics and decent IRs. Now I say "holy mother of god, look what I've done!". I'm no expert on it and I am a technically savvy (hardware/software developer) kinda guy but can see how one could get overwhelmed at its programmability as I did initially. Stick with it as DLM suggests, it'll pay off.
 
I can relate, though I'm not ready to throw in the towel. I can relate because I have a studio with all kinds of high tech do-dads and al I want to do is play. And that's pretty much all I DO do. My set up is really simple. And the secret to it and playing and ANYTHING really, is to keep it simple, at least in the very beginning. It sounds like you've added WAY too many variables to get started. Two Mission pedals, MFC, AXE and what ever else. That's WAY too much. Take one thing at a time.

I don't have a problem with the Axe, but then again I'm not trying to program a bunch of crazy stuff. I play. When I pick up the guitar for my 3 hour practices session I PLAY, or practice. I DO NOT program the Axe. I'm getting either a MFC-101 or LF+12+, so this might change; but it's time to. One thing at a time. . Even when I had my older than dirt foot pedal, before it died, I have maybe 6 presets I went between. I kept it real simple, until I got the hang or could hear SPECIFICALLy what sonic changes I needed to make. And I waited until after the gig to set up the next day and fix whatever needed fixing.
 
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I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice. I'm just frustrated right now. I guess I see all of the possibilities and want to take advantage of all. My tube amp rig has always been basic, but now that I've got the Axe, I've been trying to program pedals to controls various parameters. In other words, my playing style is Vince Gill but I'm trying to create The Edge's pedalboard. (to put into terms a guitarist can relate to).

I re-read the Greenhorns Manual, and I'm slowly going through the big manual and taking cliff notes. I'll give it a little more time. I don't want to be hasty and do something I'll regret, but it is a little overwhelming.
 
Honestly, other than the basics on how to set up a preset and run your cables, I'd stay out of the manual for a bit and spend some time making a preset of your own first just to get familiar with the controls and as a learning experience on how to dial in your sound and what controls affect the sound in what way. You can read manuals all day long, but you'll never associate what you're reading with anything in the real world if its all just text. Make a basic amp/cab setup and go through all the controls one at a time in the blocks and play with them. Observe how they affect the sound, and how you can adjust each one to get what you want from it, and also to learn which ones don't even need adjusting, at least typically. Manual control and audible observation are your best friends when learning the Axe. Get comfortable with that, and you'll find that more and more of it all falls into place rather quickly.
 
Yeah. I try NOT to change my style or basic sound. AT LEAST until I'm comfortable. Edge is great for Edge. I might create a preset or two that is dripping with wetness, but that has to have a purpose. Sound just for the sake of it might be great to show off to someone but it won't make it in my set unless it has a specific place. And I play TUNES. TOONES where the instrument is an identifiable guitar. Candy guitar is really cool, but it adds to complication and too much complication ventures too far from the actual guitar and purpose for playing music. If the sound fits with the music, great. Otherwise I'm just playing around.
 
You didn't mention what your specific problems are, but it sounds like you're trying to do too much, too fast. There are some really usable sounds within the first 40 or so presets. A few of those should at the very least get you in the ballpark for the sound you're looking for.

After you settle on one, open up Axe Edit and start with some minor tweaks to the amp block. No need to even touch the advanced parameters. Just play around with the gain and master volume until you dial in something you like. Maybe change out the cab to something different. Axe Edit makes tweaking a breeze. And I've found I don't even need a lot of tweaking to get a great sound. What is it exactly that is giving you trouble?
 
Regarding the loss of volume ...

If you use a volume block, normally with a volume pedal, but turn on the AxeFX with no pedal connected then it will assume all controllers, including volume, are set to off. You can overcome this by setting some or all controllers to be on by default. See page 138 in the version 6 manual under EXT CTRL # INIT VAL.
 
seriously dude, just sell the damn thing already… it really frustrates ME to see a thread like this after all the help you've received here. i've helped you a lot on this forum and many times, the answer was "read the manual" like in this thread: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/54530-setting-up-midi-foot-controller-misson.html

you overreact and that's kind of irritating, like here:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/53902-dont-let-me-throw-out-window-please.html
throw it out the window? really?

and you post 2 of the same thread, maybe thinking you'll get better/more answers:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/51359-please-help-me-get-6-installed.html
and
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/51356-installing-presets.html
you had both of these threads going at the same time about the same topic. i kept asking you questions about your setup and gear but you never answer them. i linked you to the axe ii wiki and suddenly it just worked.

April 21, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/rigs-routing/50871-line-6-wireless.html
and
May 29, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/53235-front-rear-input.html
both about the same topic, running a wireless to the front or rear of the axe. same answers in the first one, but you had to ask again a month later. again, never replying to let us know if you were successful.

April 24, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/51081-floorboard-midi-foot-controller.html
and
June 11, 2012
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/mfc-discussion/53863-where-mount-midi-foot-controller.html
2 of the same thread again. your first one got no responses, but instead of bumping it you created a new one. not the end of the world, but adds to forum clutter.



you said in this thread that you're trying to create the edge's pedal board. that may have been 1/2 joking, but do you honestly think creating a complex effects rig won't be difficult?

yes, the axe can be frustrating, but you have to put the time into it and you have to learn.

to be honest, if you aren't "tech illiterate" and you run all those plugins and protools (oh my!), the axe shouldn't be difficult to use at all. i really don't understand why you are getting so frustrated. maybe you are approaching the axefx as if it was protools or some other plugin you've used before, but that's the #1 mistake everyone makes with this unit.

if you're a player and not a programmer, then maybe this isn't for you. sell it. but if you want the best sound out there (in many opinions) then you are the one that has to understand the unit. it's not Fractal Audio's responsibility to create videos or other resources to teach you what many need years of experience to learn. it's your job. the manuals are there. the forum is there. we continue to help you with all of your questions, repeated or not.

"I want to learn to use the Axefx, but it's taking me longer than I thought it would." then just take more time to learn it. use a basic rig at the gig while you tweak the axe at home.

couldn't remember how to make a shunt? that really should be basic knowledge. should Fractal have made a video for that too? maybe you were just excited or in the panic at the gig, you forgot something basic. that's happened to me too, but that is a shortcoming of you, not the axefx. that's like saying "i forgot how to turn up the volume knob on my guitar."

if my post pushes you over the edge and makes you sell it immediately, i don't apologize. i'm trying to be real here. i'm sure you do have the ability to learn and use the axefx, but maybe it's just too overwhelming for you right now.

but i suggest not selling it. use a regular amp at the gig for now. take a break on the axefx. then in a few weeks or so, revisit it. start from scratch. reload all the default presets and reset the mfc and just start over. approach it with a fresh mindset and don't assume anything. don't think "protools does it like this" or "the last time i used the axe i did this…" just start completely over, but after a break.

we will still be here to answer your questions, but don't be surprised if the answer you get from me is "look at page 18 in the manual."
 
I didn't sell my amps until I was comfortable with the Axe, which took over a year. Now that the waiting list is over you will lose money on resale. I suggest putting it aside for a week and come back to it.
 
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