Frustrated. Help me dial in a killer metal tone with my Carvin 8 string

I don't know man , your raw clip sounded what id expect a 8 string tone to sound like isolated. Chuck some cleanish bass playing in unison on there and it will fatten right up.

My cousin is getting better tones than this with a POD.

I have heard better tones come out of the axe fx 2.

listen to Misha's guitar tracking videos on youtube for a better example. he is playing on a 7 string with thinner strings and has a lot more bite and clarity. I've tried cutting and boosting all over the place so if it's not the super boomy thick strings causing my issue I really don't know what magic settings trick there is to fix it
 
My cousin is getting better tones than this with a POD.

I have heard better tones come out of the axe fx 2.

listen to Misha's guitar tracking videos on youtube for a better example. he is playing on a 7 string with thinner strings and has a lot more bite and clarity. I've tried cutting and boosting all over the place so if it's not the super boomy thick strings causing my issue I really don't know what magic settings trick there is to fix it

Yeah I don't dig thick strings. On my 7 I have used everything up to a 76 for g and over time worked out while the tension feels nice tone wise the the thicker strings are just too round and bass like. Keep the 7 in b standard now with a 56 and am much happier.

Misha is nowhere near as low as you. I'd be looking more into tobin's tones than misha.

Did you try the meshuggah tone matches on the preset section ? I found they worked well when I was in g for a while.
 
DC800 clip with stock pups: https://soundcloud.com/vondano/inner-stare

video of said DC800 (with dimarzio's Ionizers 8) https://vimeo.com/87319993

i use a .72 for the low F#,

use less gain, like almost no gain,

then you need to know that audio mixing is a skill of its own, i have tried to record stuff at home for 10 years, and i am barely "ok'' at it.

trust me, if you have trouble getting a good recorded tone out of the axe-fx, DONT sell it. It is BY FAR the easiest setup to get a good recorded tone!

EDITl try the patch here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...esome-pt-2-full-song-preset-included-yay.html

See thats what I'm talking about! You switched pickups and VOILA you can actually hear your attack. With the A80's its almost like someone goes in with a little razor blade and slices off the first millisecond of each note.

Thanks for posting that my friend. I got a good chunk of my attack back when I changed to lundgrens and hopefully the lighter gauge strings will slay this beast once and for all.
 
Yeah I don't dig thick strings. On my 7 I have used everything up to a 76 for g and over time worked out while the tension feels nice tone wise the the thicker strings are just too round and bass like. Keep the 7 in b standard now with a 56 and am much happier.

Misha is nowhere near as low as you. I'd be looking more into tobin's tones than misha.

Did you try the meshuggah tone matches on the preset section ? I found they worked well when I was in g for a while.

I sure did brotha...have them loaded up now. I'm shocked at how different it sounds through my guitar even with the same exact pickups!
 
Hey man, here are a couple of things that i did to get a great heavy but tight tone.

1) Try the Atomica amp (high input one)
This amp has a super tight sound and really great with a TS od in front of it.
2) mess around with sag, neg. feedback, and bass/depth controls to get bass response and overall character you want.
3) I like the TV Mix #1, 5153 #1 cabs and a few others, there is no "right." Sometimes you just gotta flip through EVERY single cab and mic option until you get it. Starting with a tight amp (the atomica) helps!

Let me know if it helps.
 
Hey man, here are a couple of things that i did to get a great heavy but tight tone.

1) Try the Atomica amp (high input one)
This amp has a super tight sound and really great with a TS od in front of it.
2) mess around with sag, neg. feedback, and bass/depth controls to get bass response and overall character you want.
3) I like the TV Mix #1, 5153 #1 cabs and a few others, there is no "right." Sometimes you just gotta flip through EVERY single cab and mic option until you get it. Starting with a tight amp (the atomica) helps!

Let me know if it helps.

ill give it a shot thanks.


Also to you guys who sent me PM's with advice I really appreciate it. I'll keep the thread updated when I get the guitar set up with the new strings just incase anyone reading this centuries from now can learn from my struggles.
 
UPDATE: Thinner strings solved my problem


For anyone who may read this in the future. If some eric clapton/stevie ray vaughn era dude tells you to throw super thick gauge strings on your axe because you don't tune to standard: DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM. run. you will quickly find yourself in guitar hell wondering why everything sounds like shit.

thanks to all who put up with my rambling.
 
hey man, haven`t read the other replies....

However, let me tell you that I am 100% sure that your approach is wrong and that`s why you are frustrated. Been there myself, just trust me ;)

When it comes to dialing in tones in the Axe Fx and you want to have similar sound like [insert whatever you want here] then please forget that NOW.
A tone in a mix is being carried so damn hard by the context/drums/bass and even if there is a solo`d tone somewhere you will NEVER achieve such a tone with your Axe Fx only (pretty sure about that).
There is so much going on (compression, limiting, multiband compression, EQ, harmonic excitement, etc.). So unless you have good knowledge about mixing you will struggle to get a REALLY good tone.

That being said: it is not your guitar. Or let`s say: the components are alright but it is damn hard to dial in guitar tones, especially high gain tones since it`s basically just broadband noise. Plus, having 8 string means having a freaking big frequency range especially in the lower register so you WILL end up with something like a compromise tone: either it `s going to sound muddy on the low stuff but full sounding on the higher notes (E to e) or tight on the low end but thin on higher notes.
About the strings: .102 is definitely fucking thick but you will FOR SURE hear if it`s too thick for your guitar and/or technique.

So you are battling physics and high standards created by pro mixing/recording engineers.

In the end, you can make any guitar on this planet sound more or less good, that`s for sure.
Now let me give you concrete help and if that doesn`t work out, you will have to dig a little bit deeper into mixing I guess.
Also, don`t take the advice to low pass your tone to 5khz too serious as I find this utter shit. It works with some tones but really, you just cut out all the life in the high end.

Now fire up a drive block, use the TubeScreamer MOD because this one`s tighter and go for an Amp that sounds tight. Some FAS modern II or III sounds pretty tight I think but also very dead and cold. Go with a peavey Amp or the 5153, they are fine. Next is the crucial part: go find a cab that isn`t super muddy or have spikes in the low end (sounding as if the chugs are behind a wall). Choose a tight that you like the voicing as well and then you have your basic tone for recording! It`s that simple. Don`t use microphones on the cabs unless you can`t find one, then you can try to experiment with mics in the cab block. But really, it`s nothing more than just EQ on your chosen cab so that`s definitely nothing you couldn`t do yourself with an EQ and a DAW.

After that, you analyze your mix/context and tweak bass, mids, treble and presence from there and the rest is mixing, really. Of course you can apply a high and low pass filter but only if your tone has massive sub frequencies or super fizzy high end but I think there must be some high end in your tone because they are important to get an in your face tone that sounds open, clear and tight, especially with 8 strings.

EDIT: listened to your soundclip, doesn`t sound bad. I could make this sound KILLER in a mix, trust me.

I personally would try to dial out the djent character (that 2khz kchhhhhh wah wah noise which is ugly but the djenttards like it, I know ;)). Take down a little bit 1.8khz with a wider Q, if you don`t like it, reduce 700-900 hz and when done carefully and nicely you should get a better and more mix friendly tone IMO.

EDIT 2: to me, it sounds as if there is some over saturation going on (audible mostly when you palm mute and then let it sustain). Sounds like either too much input gain, too much gain on the drive, wrong drive pedal (sounds like the octave dist haha ;)).

EDIT 3: should have read your last post but aww well, I am still waiting for someone to reply to my thread so it`s okay to waste time actually doing something and maybe this post will help some noobs out there. :)
 
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The thing about thicker strings is they get rounder and bolder, I don't hear increased attack, I hear quite the opposite. I really believe now (after years of absurd gauges and tail chasing) that you need the lightest possible gauge that works. It's usually not that light at all, but it's never as heavy as you think it should be. Stepping down a gauge or two will give you a natural sharpness, cut, and bite that will let you get your tones with less of the treble knob.

Edit: listened to your tones and you're really close to something good. The advice to lower the gain a tad and tweak the highs are right on. You'll be there soon man

Not an 8-stringer (yet).

At some point in my tone-quests, that involved increasing string gauge (because tension = tone), I found 10-52 to be too heavy on the low-E (for my arrangement) and lost the balance across the strings. Don't get me wrong, I loved that chunky low-end because one can get greedy for it, but it didn't *really* work for that guitar.

It's counter-intuitive that reducing bass and gain increases heaviness, but it does in most cases. Besides, we still have to leave room for the bassist who *really* has the low-end covered (or, at least *should*).
 
Ok guys I have tried and tried and tried. over the last few months I've gotten pretty close, but something is missing. Before I start I want to point out that I have some very thick strings on my 8 string that may be causing a lack of Attack and clarity on the lowest two strings. I am using a 12 to .102 set, the luthier had recommended this and I went with it because I have huge hands and yadda yadda...they aren't hard for me to play but I learned afterwards that a lot of the bands I listen to are using thinner gauge strings SO I may roll back a few sizes before giving up entirely.

That being said, the within the ruins guitarist is using pretty much the same set as I am. I tune everything a whole step down, so it's not AS low as him, but it's pretty darn close on the bottom string. There are playthrough videos of him getting a much cleaner crisper tone than I.

NOW ONTO THE SPECS OF MY GUITAR.
I replaced the crappy A80 pickups with lundgrens which was a major improvement.
SPECS FROM CARVIN (excuse the extra price info im too lazy to edit it out.)

DC800 - Eight String Extended Scale Guitar
Right Handed
$ 200.00 - KT - Koa Top
$ 0.00 - -CG - Clear Gloss Finish (Standard)
$ 40.00 - ASH - Maple Neck/Swamp Ash Body
$ 60.00 - TN - Tung Oil Finish Back Of Neck (Natural Wood)
$ 30.00 - KPH - Koa Headstock Matches Body Finish
$ 0.00 - -8SH - 8-String Pointed Headstock 4+4 (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -EF - Ebony Fingerboard (Standard)
$ 20.00 - ABD - Abalone Dot Inlays
$ 15.00 - 6100 - Jumbo Frets .055" H .110" W
$ 0.00 - -R20 - 20in Fretboard Radius (Standard)
$ 50.00 - G - Gold Hardware
$ 0.00 - -A80B - A80B Bridge Pickup (Standard, Black Only)
$ 0.00 - -A80N - A80N Neck Pickup (Standard, Black Only)
$ 0.00 - -400 - Black Pickups (Standard)
$ 0.00 - WL - White Logo

As you can see it is a maple neck, swamp ash body, with a Koa top. I know koa is darker and not ideal for thrashy metal tones but I hoped the swampash and maple neck would make up for this. Just wanted you all to know the wood tone may be slightly darker than an all maple dc800.


As for what I have tried so far...well ALL of the high gain amps. My favorites so far being 6860 block, Das Metal and the HBE. I have Ownhammer high gain impulses marshall and diesel cabs. I've read tons of high gain threads so I know about things like messing with drive pedal settings. I've copied misha's drive pedal settings onto my amp blocks, cut and boosted before and after the amp. Tried the cut switch on the amp blocks, the bright switch. basically if it's one of those standard suggestions you see thrown around here I have probably tried it.

I cannot get a good recording tone for the life of me. Tried to double track any of these results in a mess. I hear people posting clips all the time that sounds light years better. This is my last ditch attempt before I sell my unit because I have dumped some serious time and cash into this thing and I'm just not satisfied with what I am getting so far. Not blaming the unit itself yet, maybe I am missing something, maybe the thick strings I have are just TOO much for the axe to handle. but what I have does not sound like a $3000 setup right now.

Again I am more concerned with getting a good RECORDING tone over a jamming tone. I need something I can track with.

for the love of god, HALP

I feel your pain man and I know what you're going through. It's not just axe fx. It's whatever rig you have analog or digital not really being designed for extended range. I have had similar frustrations getting good sounds out of extended range instruments, 8 string guitar tuned to drop e and 7 string bass tuned all the way down to drop e0(just above 20 hz). I have worked on tone for such a variety instruments with a different types of pickups from active emg/blackouts to q tuner as well as a variety of gear as I became introduced to extended range instruments because of a band I joined. Have had negative experience with analog, my friends line six rig and axe fx when I put the to together. I don't want to go into too much detail right now because there is alot to explain relating to the physics of sound and gear. Having tried a variety of different gear with extended range instruments, the first thing is to have alot of patience. I would say start try to Realize that typical gear and typical presets you will find on axe fx or line 6 or any modeling amp weren't designed, set to be able to accommodate and reproduce such low frequencies the way you probably want to hear them. Look into that deeply and try to discover why a given piece of gear, physical or simulated isn't accommodating of the sound you are probably looking for. For instance v30 speakers have over a 30db drop much higher up on the frequency spectrum than your lower register notes go so using them you won't too much in the way of fundamental frequency vs higher harmonics of certain notes... Now think of axe fx as your tool kit and get creative into tweaking all the gear available in the digital realm to better accommodate your instrument. For example one thing I did early on before cab lab or ultra res was mixing together different cab blocks and having one 15 bass cab to go with a 4x12 or even going with a bass cabinet and a small 8 inch speaker and mixing. For the best sound you will want to try to analyze what you want to hear, figure out why you aren't able to produce that sound(or at first maybe not even something near that sound). Be persistent and figure out why it is the sound that is coming into your ears isn't the sound you imagine or if you are uncertain what a good sound would actually sound like figure out aspects of your tone that you don't like and go about figuring out ways to get those aspects to go away, using various gear chained together a certain way and use the parameter controls on the gear you chose to eliminate the negative aspects of your sound. Even if you don't know what is good if you know what sounds bad and figure out why that occurs and then target and remove that, then rinse and repeat until by removing what sounds bad are left with what sounds good to you. Since extended range is still unfamiliar territory for a majority of guitarists keep isn't as much established advice on what a proper tone is and how you could achieve it. Once you dive in you'll start figuring out what sounds good to you and what does and doesn't work with respect to what you are playing and other instruments. Things you do on axe fx should be applicable to some extent with other gear like line 6 or all analog rigs and a recording studio except axe fx makes it alot quicker, more efficient and cheaper to experiment with different approaches.

I'm constantly improving and evolving tones for 8 string guitars to the point of custom tailoring different scenes and presets to specific guitars and specific pickups and pickup switch selection so that for a given 8 string I might dial in different tones to different scenes for the bridge pickup and neck pickup of a particular guitar to get what I want.
I'm also evolving as my skills with fractal products continues to improve, and as firmware etc... continue to evolve and get better.

Don't forget, the most important part is to follow your ears. For example here is a link to raw recording of drums and guitar scratch track tone my friend dialed in himself. I think it was firmware 15. He is much less experienced in audio engineering and working axe fx than I am but using hiuns ears and a few suggestions I gave him was able to dial in a good enough sounding tone for guitar scratch tracks. It was all in the box direct from axe fx via USB(I use spif into m interface but we recorded at his place so I used usb and axe fx as protools interface.) After our shared experiences with POD and other gear he was able to dial in this tone while the axe fx spent a few nights with him. This track is just raw drums and guitar scratch but still vastly superior to anything we ever got out of POD HD500 or analog gear for what were playing. Be creative, be patient, experiment etc... and you'll find yourself with patches that sound pretty good quicker than you'd think. Also as a basic rule of thumb all extended range tones I make and in this case my friend made with the axe fxII are created from ,scratch not modifications of presets. That is a good way to learn quicker and become more intuitive and design a sound appropriate for you.

Here is the recording. It was made using FW 15, and an Ibanez rg8 with blackwater neodymium pickups. My friend on guitar, me on drums. Its pretty much unmixed. Just mixed for me to be able to have decent monitor sound behind the drumset.https://soundcloud.com/the-grindcorps/sectarian-collapse-drum-n-guitar-preview
Here is a video of the same friend playing over some programmed drums he made on his own using line 6 pod hd500. For the sake of reference.


I'm sorry I don't have more extended range samples online right now. The tones i make now sound vastly superior to that track so I'll try and get some better quality examples up soon.

Also, this thread I started recently, It may be helpful to you regarding dialing in tone. It has been very helpful for me already.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/99830-pitch-tracking-equalizer.html

Best of luck to the beginning of what will be a long sonic voyage.
 
UPDATE: Thinner strings solved my problem


For anyone who may read this in the future. If some eric clapton/stevie ray vaughn era ...

Although I am that era, after watching B Gibbons... I am now convinced that " Thinner strings solved my problem"
 
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