Frustrated. Help me dial in a killer metal tone with my Carvin 8 string

R

rifflord22

Inspired
Ok guys I have tried and tried and tried. over the last few months I've gotten pretty close, but something is missing. Before I start I want to point out that I have some very thick strings on my 8 string that may be causing a lack of Attack and clarity on the lowest two strings. I am using a 12 to .102 set, the luthier had recommended this and I went with it because I have huge hands and yadda yadda...they aren't hard for me to play but I learned afterwards that a lot of the bands I listen to are using thinner gauge strings SO I may roll back a few sizes before giving up entirely.

That being said, the within the ruins guitarist is using pretty much the same set as I am. I tune everything a whole step down, so it's not AS low as him, but it's pretty darn close on the bottom string. There are playthrough videos of him getting a much cleaner crisper tone than I.

NOW ONTO THE SPECS OF MY GUITAR.
I replaced the crappy A80 pickups with lundgrens which was a major improvement.
SPECS FROM CARVIN (excuse the extra price info im too lazy to edit it out.)

DC800 - Eight String Extended Scale Guitar
Right Handed
$ 200.00 - KT - Koa Top
$ 0.00 - -CG - Clear Gloss Finish (Standard)
$ 40.00 - ASH - Maple Neck/Swamp Ash Body
$ 60.00 - TN - Tung Oil Finish Back Of Neck (Natural Wood)
$ 30.00 - KPH - Koa Headstock Matches Body Finish
$ 0.00 - -8SH - 8-String Pointed Headstock 4+4 (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -EF - Ebony Fingerboard (Standard)
$ 20.00 - ABD - Abalone Dot Inlays
$ 15.00 - 6100 - Jumbo Frets .055" H .110" W
$ 0.00 - -R20 - 20in Fretboard Radius (Standard)
$ 50.00 - G - Gold Hardware
$ 0.00 - -A80B - A80B Bridge Pickup (Standard, Black Only)
$ 0.00 - -A80N - A80N Neck Pickup (Standard, Black Only)
$ 0.00 - -400 - Black Pickups (Standard)
$ 0.00 - WL - White Logo

As you can see it is a maple neck, swamp ash body, with a Koa top. I know koa is darker and not ideal for thrashy metal tones but I hoped the swampash and maple neck would make up for this. Just wanted you all to know the wood tone may be slightly darker than an all maple dc800.


As for what I have tried so far...well ALL of the high gain amps. My favorites so far being 6860 block, Das Metal and the HBE. I have Ownhammer high gain impulses marshall and diesel cabs. I've read tons of high gain threads so I know about things like messing with drive pedal settings. I've copied misha's drive pedal settings onto my amp blocks, cut and boosted before and after the amp. Tried the cut switch on the amp blocks, the bright switch. basically if it's one of those standard suggestions you see thrown around here I have probably tried it.

I cannot get a good recording tone for the life of me. Tried to double track any of these results in a mess. I hear people posting clips all the time that sounds light years better. This is my last ditch attempt before I sell my unit because I have dumped some serious time and cash into this thing and I'm just not satisfied with what I am getting so far. Not blaming the unit itself yet, maybe I am missing something, maybe the thick strings I have are just TOO much for the axe to handle. but what I have does not sound like a $3000 setup right now.

Again I am more concerned with getting a good RECORDING tone over a jamming tone. I need something I can track with.

for the love of god, HALP
 
Shit man, .102 is huge. I know on my M80M the heaviest string I use is an .80 and that's for drop E. I'd say if you haven't done it already try a lighter gauge set. I know if I go much heavier it tends to get muddy even with the Lundgren, which is one of the clearest pickups I've ever used for high gain.

What's the scale you're using? The M80M is 29.4" and I've never found a need for heavier than the .80....I can do F with a .74 if I had to. I'd seriously try a much lighter set and see what happens.

EDIT: I'm using a 10-52 set with a 64 and the 80, just for clarity's sake for the post. I like tension on the heaviest strings.

EDIT 2: can you post a clip? Single or double tracked, whatever. It'd help to know what you're hearing, dude.
 
rifflord22 said:
As for what I have tried so far...well ALL of the high gain amps. My favorites so far being 6860 block, Das Metal and the HBE. I have Ownhammer high gain impulses marshall and diesel cabs. I've read tons of high gain threads so I know about things like messing with drive pedal settings. I've copied misha's drive pedal settings onto my amp blocks, cut and boosted before and after the amp. Tried the cut switch on the amp blocks, the bright switch. basically if it's one of those standard suggestions you see thrown around here I have probably tried it.
Click to expand...

I don't play an 8, so the way I approach things probably won't be perfect for you, but it sounds like you might be overcomplicating things. What I've had great success doing is just Gate > Drive (depends on the amp) > Amp > Cab. Nothing else. I use the T808 Mod, drive at zero and level at ten, then don't touch anything else. I pick a cab I like (Ownhammer Mesa IRs are what I'm using) and turn the high cut down to about 5000, and the low cut up to 70. Then I record a DI and reamp it via the USB on loop while tweaking ONLY the basic amp settings - drive, treble, mid, bass and presence. I can usually get a very usable tone by doing that.

What I've heard is that the lower you tune, the less gain and more mids you want to use to keep things clear. That might be worth trying.

Also, for recording, I assume you'll be at least double tracking (hardpanning left and right). If that's the case, keep the treble and presence a little bit higher than you normally would, because double tracking tends to smooth out the top end.

Hope there was something useful in that rambling post haha. Good luck!
 
+1 on the lighter gauges you could tune to Low B with a .102 haha. I'm an 8 string player as well. Mines a 27" Scale with Lundgren M8's as well. I use to to use a Circle K/Kalium .096 for Drop D# but have since switch to a .082 for Drop E and its perfect for that tuning.

A huge string like that will sound terrible and undefined so unless its completely necessary for tension/ intonation I would try something less extreme.

Now for the Axe:
1. Some good tips using a TS808 mod with a bass cut and a mid boost.
2. Compression to keep that low string in line. You can also pick lighter this way so the string wont go out of tune.
3. Less gain, more mids.

Mostly its the string that's giving you issues I'd imagine.
 
Is there a place i can upload a sound clip quickly without filling a ton of stuff out. IE other than soundcloud? I recorded something real quick for you guys
 
I got you man!!

Im running a Mahogany body / Maple top DC800 with A80s. 90% of your problem with attack is the string gauge. .102 is TOOO much.

here is a rough song Idea of the tones im getting. Just the DC800 and AxeFX...(also too much compression :( on my master)


or


If that's a decent tone I can probably get you close.
 
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I agree with lowering the string gauge...but just so everyone knows my lowest string is either E, or drop D. I know it's not B but it's getting damn close...I'm also wondering how the within the ruins guitarist is able to get a clear tone...i mean I've tried dropping this thing down to B and it's pretty much the same deal. Any ideas?
 
DC800 clip with stock pups: https://soundcloud.com/vondano/inner-stare

video of said DC800 (with dimarzio's Ionizers 8) https://vimeo.com/87319993

i use a .72 for the low F#,

use less gain, like almost no gain,

then you need to know that audio mixing is a skill of its own, i have tried to record stuff at home for 10 years, and i am barely "ok'' at it.

trust me, if you have trouble getting a good recorded tone out of the axe-fx, DONT sell it. It is BY FAR the easiest setup to get a good recorded tone!

EDITl try the patch here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...esome-pt-2-full-song-preset-included-yay.html
 
here are some images of the above settings. I have others that use two cabs with mics that sound better for jamming, but i chose a patch that has one cab since most people track in Mono and pan left right...

it's pretty basic, ignore the PEQ's that are greyed out. fwiw i have tried moving on before the amp block and cutting out low end before drive and before amp. On almost all my amp settings i lower 500hz on the amp GEQ

amp pic 2.jpg

amp pic 1.jpg
 
I'd say the first thing I'd try is going down on the string gauge, dude.....here's a chug clip of my M80M for a friend that wanted to hear chugs and pinch harmonics. This is 9s with a .74 on the low F. That plus Jorma's clip above should say something...the rest of the clip was fine and sounded good, but you're right about the low string.

 
rifflord22 said:
here are some images of the above settings. I have others that use two cabs with mics that sound better for jamming, but i chose a patch that has one cab since most people track in Mono and pan left right...

it's pretty basic, ignore the PEQ's that are greyed out. fwiw i have tried moving on before the amp block and cutting out low end before drive and before amp. On almost all my amp settings i lower 500hz on the amp GEQ

View attachment 25308

View attachment 25309
Click to expand...



Frist thing...all new preset.

HBE...stay stock...
Same cab if you like. Mic to Null ( there is a diff between null and none)
low cut around 95hz
High cut around 8-11k

adjust that proximity to get the perfect cab "thrum" then adjust the amp tones from there.
Sounds like Joe uses a fair amount of Compression on too WITR use it.
 
What is the scale length of your neck? If it's long enough you don't need to go massive on the strings unless you want to. If you're using a boost pedal you can raise the Low Cut for added tightness and raise the Hi Cut for extra attack, plus the drive block has the mid boost eq section where you can boost some high mids if you want. 3dB or so around 1250Hz could possibly help if you like the sound of it.
 
rifflord22 said:
Thanks! here ya go

https://instaud.io/5Pr#0:00.0

man it's the lowest one that sounds the worst...listen to when I hit the open string just phasey and no crunch. sounds like an alien fart
Click to expand...

Ok, I can tell you now for the Meshuggah song you're playing, the tone comes from a combination of the 2 guitars and the bass. YouTube ToonTrack EZMix and look for the "Do Not Look Down" video. They go through each guitar part individually and the bass takes care of most of the clanky "djent" sound.

I would start by lowering some of the gain and use the high cut filter in the speaker block to get rid of all the hissy highs.
 
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