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from Friedman BE100 Deluxe to Axe FX III?

I believe there's a good reason why the Friedman name is allowed to be used inside the AxeFx3 , it's because Friedman himself approved the tone

at least that's what I read somewhere in the forum
 

Andy Eagle

Power User
I have A/B tested to a Friedman BE 100 dlx and in an ideal world would go with that every time. BUT when you turn down the feel of the real amp craps out and the axe stays basically the same . This makes it a better home choice but also explains why particularly with clean amps the " amp in the room" sound is always different . The axe always sounds like the amp cranked in another room then fed back to studio monitors in with you. I'm sure they could produce the "in the room" sound but it would need to be a very different product. What ever else is said I've tried all the relevant ways of amplifying it and it is never going to replicate the sound and feel of just the amp if front of you. I don't blame axe for this I think it is more down to the way the controls on a real amp interact with everything and there is still no power amp and speaker combination that works FR FR that captures this . I can get some rock tones very close at volume but as soon as you turn down it's chalk and cheese different unless you write a whole new patch.
 

barryswanson

Inspired
Hey guys,

My dream amp is the Friedman BE100 Deluxe or basically any Friedman amp :D
Sadly it's way too loud (and pricey) since I live in an apartment.
I was was wondering : anyone made the switch from a real Friedman amp to the Axe FX III?
Are you happy with the switch and how do you use it at home (what monitors or cab)?

Thanks for the info!
Do it dude, get an Axe Fx and some good studio monitors. I wish I did. It would have saved me $50,000 that I spent on amps and cabs.
 

SloeGin

Member
The Red Sound Speakers sound great at low volume but they really shine and bloom up at higher volume. I use them for both, home and gigs/rehearsals.
Cheers
Sash
Have you ever compared them with the Atomic CLR or Friedman Asc monitors?
Thanks!
 

horror

Inspired
I didn't switch from a BE100 but did make a jump after owning the BE50 Deluxe. I held on to the amp for a bit but did end up selling it and have no regrets about that. It was a great amp but even with a really good MV I still found myself often needing to play with less than ideal volume levels. I am beyond happy with the AxeFX III and the tones I'm getting from the Friedman models and at reasonable levels when needed (and cranked levels when needed too).
I also do not miss changing tubes and biasing!
 

Chris Hurley

Experienced
Hey guys,

My dream amp is the Friedman BE100 Deluxe or basically any Friedman amp :D
Sadly it's way too loud (and pricey) since I live in an apartment.
I was was wondering : anyone made the switch from a real Friedman amp to the Axe FX III?
Are you happy with the switch and how do you use it at home (what monitors or cab)?

Thanks for the info!

I figured I'd be the counterpoint on this, not having read the rest of the posts yet. Keep in mind you are asking on the Fractal forum, so you are mostly going to get people who are all-in on the Fractal. Ask it on Rig-talk and see what you get. :)

Pricey? Maybe. There are options for getting that sound at lower cost. JJ Jr. amp is one option that is almost universally loved. Pink Taco and Runt 20 are also less expensive options. I've seen Smallbox 50 amps for under $2000 from time to time and also sometimes amps that Friedman modded into BE specs. There are plenty of options.

Loud? Depends on the volume setting. You certainly can enjoy a BE100 in a home environment. JJ Jr or Runt 20 or Pink Taco even more so. They have a master volume and it works. The BE tone doesn't rely on power amp distortion.

I've gone back and forth between Friedman and Fractal stuff and still own both. (Not technically a BE100, but very similar.)

I know some people will say there is no reason to own the Friedman (or any real amp) if you have a Fractal. There are plenty of us who would disagree with that. Ideally, you need both. If you can only pick one, prioritize, but don't fool yourself into thinking that one is the same as the other. Yes, they both can work and the Fractal is fantastic.

The Fractal is awesome but its awesome in a different way than the Friedman. Yes, both make guitar noises but the experience using them is different and they have different strengths.

For me, plugging into the Friedman with a guitar and playing is just fun. Its simple and awesome. It doesn't have to be crazy loud.

The Fractal is like a wonderland of cool stuff. You can get it to sound remarkably similar to a Friedman using guitar cabs but the experience of using it is a lot different. The Friedman is better for me when I just want to plug in and pretend I'm a regular guitar player- The tube poweramp into the guitar cabinet is a visceral experience. Fractal into a tube poweramp is also cool, as a side note.

The Fractal is better when I want to go beyond the basic tone of an amp, or experience other amps that will never be my daily drivers, or add effects or extra preamp channels, or build a wet/dry rig, or play in headphones, etc...

Its just two different experiences and neither exactly replaces the other one. My suggestion would be to try out one of the 20W Friedmans and see if you like it. They are pretty well loved. If you do, then pick up an Axe-FX III later- or maybe an FM3 or FM9 to go with it. If you don't, then return it and try the other path.

Most of the people who seem OK with giving up their tube amps are OK with the experience of playing direct to PA. I hate that experience personally, but plenty of people love it. If you can love it, the world is your oyster with the Fractal.
 
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Chris Hurley

Experienced
Another option is to pull a "Kemper" and just tone match your amp at your preferred settings on the AF3 then just sell the amp; this really pisses Dave Friedman off btw haha.

This gets you a snapshot that sounds like the amp in that setting but is a far cry from owning the actual amp. Been there, done that. Nothing against Kemper intended at all- its a different experience.
 

Chris Hurley

Experienced
Could anyone do a side by side and share a preset for amp and guitarcab?

The Fractal dials up pretty much exactly like the Friedman. When I put them on an amp switcher, the controls are really similar and you get similar sounds pretty easily. When you sit and play one for a bit and switch back, there is a difference that you notice right away. You switch back and they sound the same- maybe its a slight volume difference... Its elusive.

There's no real magic in a fractal friedman amp preset- drop a friedman block on the grid and dial it up like a friedman.
 

Chris Hurley

Experienced
I believe there's a good reason why the Friedman name is allowed to be used inside the AxeFx3 , it's because Friedman himself approved the tone

at least that's what I read somewhere in the forum

I'm not sure what the background is on that- Dave Friedman has lamented that he gets no royalty from most modelers, although the Brainworx amp sim is obviously authorized.

Still, there obviously was some kind of relationship: I don't know if we'd ever get an official answer but I remember way back that Rack Systems was a dealer for Fractal during the Ultra and early Axe-FX II days. Somewhere in there, the amp block got renamed to Friedman, presumably because of the relationship. I'm not sure if Dave had anything to do with the arrangement and it certainly doesn't sound like there are any warm and fuzzies there at this point in time.

I remember selling my Ultra to Rack systems when I got on the Axe-FX II waiting list because they needed them for touring acts and they weren't available.

I do remember seeing that the gentleman behind Carol Ann Amps was intimately involved with the models of their amps back in the Axe-II days. I think he even said he used the Fractal to debug a design before he actually built it.

I don't remember anyone else having an "official" model. Fryette authorized the use of their name at some point. I was reading the release notes for the Ultra and it said "Renamed Fryer to Fryette with permission"

I'm sure there are good stories to hear here. My suspicion is that Fractal has sold a number of Friedman amps based on the models but I don't know how many Friedman users sold their amps when they got the Fractal. If you go by this thread- all but 1 sold their amps. :)
 
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Sashman

Inspired
Have you ever compared them with the Atomic CLR or Friedman Asc monitors?
Thanks!
Yes, I did compare them with both the CLR and the ASM and I ended up buying the Red Sound.
There are many good speakers out there, CLR, Friedman, Xitone etc. and it depends on what you exactly want.
I can't describe it better than Sukh. The CLR are absolutely great speakers and they are maybe? more neutral sounding? I dont know and I dont care because the Red Sound are that much fun to play. I never tried a speaker before that I enyoed that much.
Some are using Global EQ with their speakers, I don't I play them right out of the box.
Cheers
Sash
 

SloeGin

Member
I've had several Friedmans over the last few years. In the last couple of months I sold all but my BE Dlx, and it's probably going up for sale soon. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything with the Axe, the Friedman models are excellent. I've finally gotten to the point that I like what I hear from FRFR and may even prefer it over an amp in the room. Plus the only practical way for me to use my amps is through a load box or attenuator, at which point there's no reason not to use the Axe.
What frfr do you use?
 

Tremonti

Fractal Fanatic
I’ve owned pretty much every Friedman amp from the last 5 years - Butterslax, several BE100s, SS100, JJ, Dirty Shirley, Smallbox - and could never reconcile it with the realities of living in a neighborhood. I bought the Axe III and I’ve never once thought about going back. Just remember when you get it - cab choice makes an immense difference. Picking a solid IR for your patch is a night and day difference.
Isn't it funny how important that IR is! I have gone through thousands of IR's and I keep going back to 1 in particular.
 
I went from a JJ Jr. to the FM3 to the Axe FX III. I used the Jr. with a Fryette PS2 and a 2x12 cab. The problem for me with something like that is you're not pushing the speakers. I really wasn't satisfied with the sound unless the speakers were really moving some air. (Speaker Compression and Gain Enhancer on the FX3 are my favorite tweaks.) And because I live with, and in the vicinity of, other people, that's just not always possible--especially with the pandemic. Running the Jr. out of the PS2 and through IRs was okay, but at that point, I felt like I may as well go with Fractal and get more versatility. I run it through Adam A7x monitors or an Atomic CLR Neo Mk II. I couldn't be happier. Not only do I finally have the sound in my head, I have ALL the sounds. I can get loud when I want, or play quietly at 5am. Cab in the room sound can be pretty thrilling, but I think I actually prefer the mic'ed cab sound. You know, the kind of sound you preserve on record for all eternity. Anyway, I don't miss tube amps, cabs, pedals at all.
 
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Kriig

Fractal Fanatic
I figured I'd be the counterpoint on this, not having read the rest of the posts yet. Keep in mind you are asking on the Fractal forum, so you are mostly going to get people who are all-in on the Fractal. Ask it on Rig-talk and see what you get. :)

Pricey? Maybe. There are options for getting that sound at lower cost. JJ Jr. amp is one option that is almost universally loved. Pink Taco and Runt 20 are also less expensive options. I've seen Smallbox 50 amps for under $2000 from time to time and also sometimes amps that Friedman modded into BE specs. There are plenty of options.

Loud? Depends on the volume setting. You certainly can enjoy a BE100 in a home environment. JJ Jr or Runt 20 or Pink Taco even more so. They have a master volume and it works. The BE tone doesn't rely on power amp distortion.

I've gone back and forth between Friedman and Fractal stuff and still own both. (Not technically a BE100, but very similar.)

I know some people will say there is no reason to own the Friedman (or any real amp) if you have a Fractal. There are plenty of us who would disagree with that. Ideally, you need both. If you can only pick one, prioritize, but don't fool yourself into thinking that one is the same as the other. Yes, they both can work and the Fractal is fantastic.

The Fractal is awesome but its awesome in a different way than the Friedman. Yes, both make guitar noises but the experience using them is different and they have different strengths.

For me, plugging into the Friedman with a guitar and playing is just fun. Its simple and awesome. It doesn't have to be crazy loud.

The Fractal is like a wonderland of cool stuff. You can get it to sound remarkably similar to a Friedman using guitar cabs but the experience of using it is a lot different. The Friedman is better for me when I just want to plug in and pretend I'm a regular guitar player- The tube poweramp into the guitar cabinet is a visceral experience. Fractal into a tube poweramp is also cool, as a side note.

The Fractal is better when I want to go beyond the basic tone of an amp, or experience other amps that will never be my daily drivers, or add effects or extra preamp channels, or build a wet/dry rig, or play in headphones, etc...

Its just two different experiences and neither exactly replaces the other one. My suggestion would be to try out one of the 20W Friedmans and see if you like it. They are pretty well loved. If you do, then pick up an Axe-FX III later- or maybe an FM3 or FM9 to go with it. If you don't, then return it and try the other path.

Most of the people who seem OK with giving up their tube amps are OK with the experience of playing direct to PA. I hate that experience personally, but plenty of people love it. If you can love it, the world is your oyster with the Fractal.
Keeping my amps, cabs and stomps.....
and running the Axe III trough a Mesa 295 and two 4x12 cabs sounds and feels different than going through monitors.

Going through a PA and real cabs works very very well with Axe III. Better than Axe II imho. Easier to get a great result.

And i can still run through studio monitors at the same time. To keep the feel.
 

Tpj3313

Member
Hey guys,

My dream amp is the Friedman BE100 Deluxe or basically any Friedman amp :D
Sadly it's way too loud (and pricey) since I live in an apartment.
I was was wondering : anyone made the switch from a real Friedman amp to the Axe FX III?
Are you happy with the switch and how do you use it at home (what monitors or cab)?

Thanks for the info!
I would go with the Friedman . The master volume works verry well for getting good tones at any volume and the dynamic cannot be matched by the axe fx
 
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