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Friedman BE/HBE Thump Values?

EDIT: I confused the thump switch with the "Freq." switch on the BE-100. Question still remains the same tho! What frequencies is the "Freq." switch changing the Thump/Depth knob to?

Does anybody know what Depth frequency value to assign in order to mimic the Friedman BE-100 Deluxe thump switch? I think it has three values, and I assume that the stock value is 200Hz, which the model in the Axe is set to. But I am wondering what frequencies the actual switch on the amp switches to. I know I can just change the value to whatever sounds best and feels best to me, but I am just curious! TIA.
 
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FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The Thump switch is a Depth switch. There is no need to alter the Depth frequency. Turn the Depth knob to get the desired "Thump".

The reason amps don't have Depth knobs anymore is because Peavey got a patent on putting a pot in the feedback path and has been enforcing it. It's one of those stupid patents that shouldn't have been granted because it was obvious and there was prior art. So the workaround is to put a switch with a few predefined values in place of a pot.
 
The Thump switch is a Depth switch. There is no need to alter the Depth frequency. Turn the Depth knob to get the desired "Thump".

The reason amps don't have Depth knobs anymore is because Peavey got a patent on putting a pot in the feedback path and has been enforcing it. It's one of those stupid patents that shouldn't have been granted because it was obvious and there was prior art. So the workaround is to put a switch with a few predefined values in place of a pot.
Woah! Didn't know that was a thing. Thanks for letting me know! :)
 
Okay so I checked again and I got the Thump switch confused with the "Freq." switch on the front panel. According to the manual of the BE-100 Deluxe, the "Freq." switch on the front panel changes the frequency of the Thump/Depth knob itself. I guess then my question still stands? What frequencies is the Thump being shifted to?
 

Hellbat

Fractal Fanatic
If by Freq you mean the voice switch, the voicings are covered by the v1, v2, v3 models.

Edit : sorry I see there is a separate switch. I think the Fractal may be an older or non “deluxe” version. I know this amp has had a lot of revisions from the manufacturer.
 
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If by Freq you mean the voice switch, the voicings are covered by the v1, v2, v3 models.

Edit : sorry I see there is a separate switch. I think the Fractal may be an older or non “deluxe” version. I know this amp has had a lot of revisions from the manufacturer.
Yeah I think the modelled version is the 2018 version which is not the Deluxe version and doesn’t have the Freq. switch. But I think there was a beta of the Cygnus FW where the Deluxe was included and removed from subsequent FW updates. I missed that particular beta but maybe the folks at FAS still have the amp around or maybe others on the forum might have experience with the amp and know the answer.
 

Thomas Obester

Inspired
I know what you mean and I have plenty of experiences with be50 dlx and be100 dlx, even JJ 100 with deluxe mod.

that 3-way freq switch has stock 200hz value of older be100 (switch to the right)
120hz is JJ/Butterslax low end (switch to the left)
in center is 250hz, or even higher probably.

I prefer 120hz by far.
So just go tho power amp page where you have depth frequency and set it to one of those values, or expertiment, for example set it to 95hz for similar response of Diezel VH4 low end.
The lower you go with frequency value, the higher you have to set the depth knob to hear that desired efect.
As you turn the depth knob up, this also introduce a mid scoop, so be aware of that, but IMO in a good way.
When set to 120hz depth and value is higher, some of those lower mids are scooped and this produce deeper, but cleaner low end.
This works best for chuggy sounds IMO.
 
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I know what you mean and I have plenty of experiences with be50 dlx and be100 dlx, even JJ 100 with deluxe mod.

that 3-way freq switch has stock 200hz value of older be100 (switch to the right)
120hz is JJ/Butterslax low end (switch to the left)
in center is 250hz, or even higher probably.

I prefer 120hz by far.
So just go tho power amp page where you have depth frequency and set it to one of those values, or expertiment, for example set it to 95hz for similar response of Diezel VH4 low end.
The lower you go with frequency value, the higher you have to set the depth knob to hear that desired efect.
As you turn the depth knob up, this also introduce a mid scoop, so be aware of that, but IMO in a good way.
When set to 120hz depth and value is higher, some of those lower mids are scooped and this produce deeper, but cleaner low end.
This works best for chuggy sounds IMO.
AH! THANK YOU! I was kind of hoping that the 120-130Hz figure would be around in there somewhere because to me that value of the depth frequency sounds best on the Friedmans. I mostly play in Drop C so I guess this makes sense that the JJ and Butterslax would have that value as well.

Also agree on the low-mids there. I was always fighting the low-mids in the Friedmans ever since Cygnus came. I use fairly mid-forward IRs to begin with so the Friedmans were annoyingly fuzzy in the low-end and low-mids.

Thanks for the help!
 
I know what you mean and I have plenty of experiences with be50 dlx and be100 dlx, even JJ 100 with deluxe mod.
On a side note, how close in your experience, can you dial the JJ sound on the Axe? I've always wanted to try the JJ but owning a tube amp in an apartment space is a bit of a crazy thing. Would love to know if you know any tricks/tips to dial in a similar sound on the BE/HBE models on the using the deeper parameters Axe. I'm guessing the depth frequency might be a place to start?
 

Thomas Obester

Inspired
AH! THANK YOU! I was kind of hoping that the 120-130Hz figure would be around in there somewhere because to me that value of the depth frequency sounds best on the Friedmans. I mostly play in Drop C so I guess this makes sense that the JJ and Butterslax would have that value as well.

Also agree on the low-mids there. I was always fighting the low-mids in the Friedmans ever since Cygnus came. I use fairly mid-forward IRs to begin with so the Friedmans were annoyingly fuzzy in the low-end and low-mids.

Thanks for the help!
yeah, you were super close with your ears, good job ;)

I play also in drop C with PRS Tremonti for that... well tremonti sound :D but also play a lot Alice in Chains, Mastodon and similar things.
With those sounds and playing styles, it is super important to cut the low mids to stay tight and articulate.

I agree with everything you said, how friedman sounds in cygnus, hence using lower depth freq values does wonders.

If you want to achieve the JJ sound, you have to use Cameron CCV 2C model (believe me, I tried to tweak friedman models for weeks if not months). :sweatsmile:

I A/Bed my JJ 100 with ax3 and ax8 (ax8 friedman models were surprisingly closer to real friedmans I had).

So, use Cameron CCV 2C, lower the gain in that model to 3 on a dial, so it is clear and tight, but still sounds big.
Other than that, tweak nothing and you have very, very close sound to JBE mod in JJ.
Me and all my buddies, who tried my preset and compared with real JJ 100, agreed, that CCV 2C sounds even better.
Worth trying, let me know if you try it, or if you have more questions.
Good luck :)

also, the right IR is the key !
2 of my most beloved are : OH FMAN V93 Modern mix and York Audio FDMN PX mix.
 
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So, use Cameron CCV 2C, lower the gain in that model to 3 on a dial, so it is clear and tight, but still sounds big.
Other than that, tweak nothing and you have very, very close sound to JBE mod in JJ.
Thanks again! Will give this a whirl soon!

(ax8 friedman models were surprisingly closer to real friedmans I had)
It seems that out of all the amps in the FAS world, Friedmans seem to have undergone the most amount of changes between firmwares/units (in my experience). Ever since the 2018 C45 Friedman was added on the Axe Fx II, Friedmans have been my go-to gain-y amps so I've been playing them for a while now. Most of the changes have been pleasant to my ears, but Cygnus had me in a crisis for a while :sweatsmile:. I think it's a tricky thing to have a consistent sound with hand-wired amps in the first place so I guess a lot of it comes down to that element as well!
 

Thomas Obester

Inspired
Thanks again! Will give this a whirl soon!


It seems that out of all the amps in the FAS world, Friedmans seem to have undergone the most amount of changes between firmwares/units (in my experience). Ever since the 2018 C45 Friedman was added on the Axe Fx II, Friedmans have been my go-to gain-y amps so I've been playing them for a while now. Most of the changes have been pleasant to my ears, but Cygnus had me in a crisis for a while :sweatsmile:. I think it's a tricky thing to have a consistent sound with hand-wired amps in the first place so I guess a lot of it comes down to that element as well!
I can´t agree more man !
Friedman HBE 2018 C45 was my go to sound for years (along with Atomica high).
Cygnus is great all around, but IMHO, the friedmans suffer from those amp modeling changes, not sure why, but it is as it is.
Same with VH4 models. In fw 15.01 those sounded dead on to my vh4, with cygnuss, naaah. way too off..
Especially for friedman owners (I spoke to a few), it sounds weaker overall.. but....I don´t care, because of that I discovered much better amp models, like Cameron CCV 2C or USA IIC++, so I am not complaining at all @FractalAudio :tearsofjoy:
 
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I don´t care, because of that I discovered much better amp models, like Cameron CCV 2C or USA IIC++, so I am not complaining at all @FractalAudio :tearsofjoy:
Oh dude absolutely! I've dived deep into the amps library myself. The IIC++ is now my second favourite amp, too! It's just so good. And yes, it may sound like this just turned into a bit of a Cygnus complaint thread, but it is not! I absolutely love the new modeling and would not go back to Ares for any reason. That's the joy of owning a FAS product: you have so much goodness that you will never be disappointed!
 

GreatGreen

Power User
The Thump switch is a Depth switch. There is no need to alter the Depth frequency. Turn the Depth knob to get the desired "Thump".

The reason amps don't have Depth knobs anymore is because Peavey got a patent on putting a pot in the feedback path and has been enforcing it. It's one of those stupid patents that shouldn't have been granted because it was obvious and there was prior art. So the workaround is to put a switch with a few predefined values in place of a pot.

I've also heard of Peavey doing this with Depth controls. It's awful and it's for this reason alone I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if they went out of business. Sleazy business practices like patenting incredibly fundamental amp circuit elements, that had been done before, do nothing but hold the entire industry back.

On that note though, does anybody know how EVH is able to have "Resonance" controls on their 5150 III series?
 

Chris Hurley

Experienced
I'm pretty sure that resonance patent expired back in 2011. I see multiple amps with a variable depth control now- BE100/50 seem to, although maybe that is a rotary switch. I can't find any current peavey patents that seem to apply to this but I could be missing them.

Many companies use patents as a shield against companies that use patents as a weapon. (cough cough... mesa... cough cough...)
 
I'm pretty sure that resonance patent expired back in 2011. I see multiple amps with a variable depth control now- BE100/50 seem to, although maybe that is a rotary switch. I can't find any current peavey patents that seem to apply to this but I could be missing them.
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. But I've not seen the word "resonance" itself feature very prominently, though. Friedman uses "Thump", for instance. EVH 5150III puts the "resonance" knob in the back panel instead of the front. I'm guessing this might have something to do with the patent.

EDIT: I guess what I mean is that maybe the patent didn't allow for a "resonance" knob on the front panel, so using a different word or placing the knob on the back panel was a workaround of some sort?
 
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Sashman

Experienced
I can´t agree more man !
Friedman HBE 2018 C45 was my go to sound for years (along with Atomica high).
Cygnus is great all around, but IMHO, the friedmans suffer from those amp modeling changes, not sure why, but it is as it is.
Same with VH4 models. In fw 15.01 those sounded dead on to my vh4, with cygnuss, naaah. way too off..
Especially for friedman owners (I spoke to a few), it sounds weaker overall.. but....I don´t care, because of that I discovered much better amp models, like Cameron CCV 2C or USA IIC++, so I am not complaining at all @FractalAudio :tearsofjoy:
Yeah I second that. The C45 was my main amp but sadly it lost all its bells and whistles.
I clearly prefer the Atomica High, CCV and FAS Hot Rod right now.
 

Thomas Obester

Inspired
Yeah I second that. The C45 was my main amp but sadly it lost all its bells and whistles.
I clearly prefer the Atomica High, CCV and FAS Hot Rod right now.
I gotta try that FAS Hot rod.
Frankly till now I had no luck with FAS amp models, but will give this one a go and will see if it does that for me.
How do you tweak this model ?
 

Sashman

Experienced
I gotta try that FAS Hot rod.
Frankly till now I had no luck with FAS amp models, but will give this one a go and will see if it does that for me.
How do you tweak this model ?
Sometime I think it sounds almost to perfect. I really like with the York Audio Mesa OS, BOGNA or a mix of the M24 and Blackjack Cab.
It has massive gain and mids, no boost etc. needed.
 
Fryette (or VHT as it was) predated peavey’s use (and patent) of the resonance control with their depth control (same thing), they have always had it on their amps and power amps. I think Steve also said it was already a thing in old tube manuals anyway. Not a patent that would be held up in court but who wants to spend the money challenging it.
 
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