FRFR vs. Amp/Cab

rtcook

rtcook

Experienced
Guys,

I know this has been talked about a lot so please bear with me. I currently own an Axe II and have it connected in stereo to a Marshall 20/20 rack amp into two Marshall 1960’s loaded with V30’s. The tone I get is really good, but limited. I’m still having trouble getting my tone to be the same as it was from my Ultra settings, but I’m working on it.

I am a at home player only. I know the first thing you think is two 4x12’s at home? Well, I like it loud and like the stack feel. I am wanting to try and go FRFR so I can get better Fender sounds using the cab sims and use the SVT amp in the Axe II to play my bass. I’d really like to utilize all the features of the Axe and get rid of a lot of equipment. But, I do not want to loose the “in the room” feel you guys say will go away with a FRFR setup. That still confuses me why this will happen. I am currently looking at the following FRFR cabs:

QSC K12 and K15
Mackie HD1221 and 1531
EV ELX112P and ELX115P

Will a pair of any of these (or any other) still give me the “in the room” feel I get from two 4x12’s just based on their wattage? Seems as though they should be able to push some air. Again, I will just be using these at home. They are not going to be used live. I don’t play in a band.

Will losing the Marshall tube amp make a big difference or will the Axe amp sim be the same?

I went to my local Guitar Center and Sam Ash, but the only one I could demo was the QSC K12. And it was hard to say how it compared when I had nothing else on that level to compare it to.

Cost does not matter to me. I just want to try and get the best of both worlds.

Suggestions/comments please.

Thanks,

Roger
 
rtcook said:
Guys,

I know this has been talked about a lot so please bear with me. I currently own an Axe II and have it connected in stereo to a Marshall 20/20 rack amp into two Marshall 1960’s loaded with V30’s. The tone I get is really good, but limited. I’m still having trouble getting my tone to be the same as it was from my Ultra settings, but I’m working on it.

I am a at home player only. I know the first thing you think is two 4x12’s at home? Well, I like it loud and like the stack feel. I am wanting to try and go FRFR so I can get better Fender sounds using the cab sims and use the SVT amp in the Axe II to play my bass. I’d really like to utilize all the features of the Axe and get rid of a lot of equipment. But, I do not want to loose the “in the room” feel you guys say will go away with a FRFR setup. That still confuses me why this will happen. I am currently looking at the following FRFR cabs:

QSC K12 and K15
Mackie HD1221 and 1531
EV ELX112P and ELX115P

Will a pair of any of these (or any other) still give me the “in the room” feel I get from two 4x12’s just based on their wattage? Seems as though they should be able to push some air. Again, I will just be using these at home. They are not going to be used live. I don’t play in a band.

Will losing the Marshall tube amp make a big difference or will the Axe amp sim be the same?

I went to my local Guitar Center and Sam Ash, but the only one I could demo was the QSC K12. And it was hard to say how it compared when I had nothing else on that level to compare it to.

Cost does not matter to me. I just want to try and get the best of both worlds.

Suggestions/comments please.

Thanks,

Roger
Click to expand...


Atomics work well
People rave about the RCF NX 12 as a high end solution
The new Atomic CLR range may be the final word when its out in 3 months

Try stuff out and make your own opinion. One man's dream is another's nightmare

James
 
The qsc k series are nice but the RCF NX series seems to be the best solution at the moment. It being only a few months till the atomic clr's are available I would wait for them. and as far as the in the room feel I don't think that's really an issue anymore at least with the II, when you hear a decent frfr compared to a cab you will realise what you've been missing.. IMHO :)
 
rtcook said:
Guys,

I know this has been talked about a lot so please bear with me. I currently own an Axe II and have it connected in stereo to a Marshall 20/20 rack amp into two Marshall 1960’s loaded with V30’s. The tone I get is really good, but limited. I’m still having trouble getting my tone to be the same as it was from my Ultra settings, but I’m working on it.

I am a at home player only. I know the first thing you think is two 4x12’s at home? Well, I like it loud and like the stack feel. I am wanting to try and go FRFR so I can get better Fender sounds using the cab sims and use the SVT amp in the Axe II to play my bass. I’d really like to utilize all the features of the Axe and get rid of a lot of equipment. But, I do not want to loose the “in the room” feel you guys say will go away with a FRFR setup. That still confuses me why this will happen. I am currently looking at the following FRFR cabs:

QSC K12 and K15
Mackie HD1221 and 1531
EV ELX112P and ELX115P

Will a pair of any of these (or any other) still give me the “in the room” feel I get from two 4x12’s just based on their wattage? Seems as though they should be able to push some air. Again, I will just be using these at home. They are not going to be used live. I don’t play in a band.

Will losing the Marshall tube amp make a big difference or will the Axe amp sim be the same?

I went to my local Guitar Center and Sam Ash, but the only one I could demo was the QSC K12. And it was hard to say how it compared when I had nothing else on that level to compare it to.

Cost does not matter to me. I just want to try and get the best of both worlds.

Suggestions/comments please.

Thanks,

Roger
Click to expand...

I have a pair of the Mackie HD1531's and also several Marshall heads/4x12 cabs. I love the the Mackies and they sound huge. If you want stack/4X12 feel, you can't go wrong with the HD1531's.
 
James Cullen said:
Atomics work well
People rave about the RCF NX 12 as a high end solution
The new Atomic CLR range may be the final word when its out in 3 months

Try stuff out and make your own opinion. One man's dream is another's nightmare

James
Click to expand...


James,

The Atomic CLR's sounded interesting, but won't know for sure till they come out. Are they powered or passive? If powered, tube or SS? Still looking for more comments on other FRFR speakers.
 
ZenOnU said:
I have a pair of the Mackie HD1531's and also several Marshall heads/4x12 cabs. I love the the Mackies and they sound huge. If you want stack/4X12 feel, you can't go wrong with the HD1531's.
Click to expand...

These HD1531's seemed the best choice to me based on the reading and specs. Can you get them to sound justblike your tube amp and Marshall cabs. This is exactly what I am after. As well as being able to cop a good Fender tone and use it with my bass.
 
rtcook said:
James,

The Atomic CLR's sounded interesting, but won't know for sure till they come out. Are they powered or passive? If powered, tube or SS? Still looking for more comments on other FRFR speakers.
Click to expand...
Hi rtcook, there will be both active and passives versions ,the powered will come with SS class D amp module
 
I had went the power amp / cab route then moved to FRFR. Honestly, I could say I was about 75% satisfied with my power amp/cab route, but I have found out I am definitely not an FRFR kind of player. I just couldn't get along with it (I would qualify this by saying it may be the EV speaker I was using). I am going back to a power amp / cab route. I never tried a tube power amp so I may try that and see how far that gets me!
 
DC23 said:
I had went the power amp / cab route then moved to FRFR. Honestly, I could say I was about 75% satisfied with my power amp/cab route, but I have found out I am definitely not an FRFR kind of player. I just couldn't get along with it (I would qualify this by saying it may be the EV speaker I was using). I am going back to a power amp / cab route. I never tried a tube power amp so I may try that and see how far that gets me!
Click to expand...

What was it you could not get along with?
 
I found I could get a nice sound for bedroom (or slightly louder levels) but when I tried to play at levels in a band setting, I just could not gel with the high gain sounds (the clean tones were always pretty good). The bass of the speaker was overpowering when playing high gain sounds and I could never tame it or balance it with the high end (it would always end up boomy and not tight regardless of what global/speaker/EQ measures I tried to utilize). Now I know tons of people use FRFR with lots of success, but I can't seem to do it. I'm sure if I bought a much higher end FRFR monitor my life would be ALOT easier but we all have to try to work within our means. I have grown to like the thump and power I get from actual guitar cab speakers so I think I'm gonna go back to that.

Note, I have an EV ELX112P. I think just for bedroom levels it would probably be fine, but I would suggest (if you can afford it) go for a Mackie HD1221 or 1531 (I hear the 1531's have the most guitar cab like feel/thump although I personally have never tried one).
 
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I hear ya! I´ve tried FRFR both with Ultra and now also with the AXE2. While some presets sounds really good, I cant get my rock/blues presets to get that "right feeling" for me. Maybe Im not skilled enough to tweak, maybe its in my ears/brain.

Or Im just an old grumpy Guitar Cab guy... so still going with my 1x12 and 2x12 celestion Cabs.
 
But, I do not want to loose the “in the room” feel you guys say will go away with a FRFR setup. That still confuses me why this will happen.
Click to expand...
FRFR uses cab IRs which by nature attempt to reproduce the sound of a miked cab. Not that that's bad, but you should have the right expectation. IMO, you 'll never get an FRFR solution to sound like a cab in the room. Each has their place - for gigs I use a small monitor so I can hear basically what's going FOH, while at home I go amp/cab. YMMV - try it and use what you like...
 
rtcook said:
These HD1531's seemed the best choice to me based on the reading and specs. Can you get them to sound justblike your tube amp and Marshall cabs. This is exactly what I am after. As well as being able to cop a good Fender tone and use it with my bass.
Click to expand...

I love my HD1531's because I can get them to sound better IMO than my Marshall Heads/Cabs. I'm creating presets for both setups (FRFR and Tube/Cab), but I find the FRFR Mackie setup to be much more in-line with my expectations relative to live gig/recorded guitar. I invested heavily into both setups and I actually like having the ability to play both FRFR and Tube/Cab, but its really hard to beat the Mackie HD1531's for dialing-in that really heavy guitar tone that you'd hear at a show. If I want to feel the air being pushed and get the cab sound that cuts I can do that with my Marshall Heads/Cabs, but I find myself using lower volume at home and dialing way heavier tone with the HD1531's than I can with my Tube/Cab setup.
 
ZenOnU said:
I love my HD1531's because I can get them to sound better IMO than my Marshall Heads/Cabs. I'm creating presets for both setups (FRFR and Tube/Cab), but I find the FRFR Mackie setup to be much more in-line with my expectations relative to live gig/recorded guitar. I invested heavily into both setups and I actually like having the ability to play both FRFR and Tube/Cab, but its really hard to beat the Mackie HD1531's for dialing-in that really heavy guitar tone that you'd hear at a show. If I want to feel the air being pushed and get the cab sound that cuts I can do that with my Marshall Heads/Cabs, but I find myself using lower volume at home and dialing way heavier tone with the HD1531's than I can with my Tube/Cab setup.
Click to expand...

What are the dimensions of that Mackie? Weight?
 
Anyone use one of the MACKIE 1531's as a backline with axe on top like a regular amp/cab? Wondering if this would work as well that way??? Sure it would, but want verification.
 
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Tremonti said:
Anyone use one of the MACKIE 1531's as a backline with axe on top like a regular amp/cab? Wondering if this would work as well that way??? Sure it would, but want verification.
Click to expand...

Why use P.A. cabs instead of guitar cabs?

Abasi: Because they’re full-range speaker systems that match the full-range patches we’re using on our Axe-FX Ultras. Basically, by going full range, our rigs represent exactly what front of house is getting, and we don’t have to worry about mic placement or type— or power amps, for that matter, because the Mackie HD1531s we use are powered. We actually just added some HD-series subwoofers, too, which really enhance the lows. And with the Axe-FX, if need be, we can travel to gigs without taking any backline at all. We just run it into the P.A.
GuitarPlayer: Tosin Abasi and Javier Reyes

So I realized that perhaps going Full Range Full Response might be a solution to this. Essentially that means getting a nice PA speaker (or something that can replicate the full range of sound unlike a guitar cab which is very limited spectrally) to replace your cab. The PA speaker would be replacing your poweramp and cab (and you would run cab and poweramp simulation on the Axefx), and would also allow you to go direct to the board at the same time in a daisy chain. This way you have stage sound for yourself and the crowd. I tried this set-up recently with a set of Mackie HD1531′s and man, I have to say that it’s unreal.
MISHASUCKS.NET/GEER_GEEK: ARE 4x12s A THING OF THE PAST? | MetalSucks
 
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