FRFR Tip: Give yourself a midrange boost

Gamedojo

Gamedojo

Power User
Ok... so, I've finally got myself an FRFR setup with my Axe. Its finally complete after picking up an 800w Crown power amp running into an SRX JBL monitor.

What this thread is about, is to suggest putting a switchable midboost PEQ into all your patches.

What I learned very quickly (which I expected) is that he low-volume patches I've created, don't have the proper EQ balanced when cranked up. I since tweaked the patches I will use live to sound better at 100db+, but there was still something missing

So I put in a few PEQs to switch on and off, and quickly found out that a generous midboost INSTANTLY gave me the hard "dig-in" feel I get with my 100watt marshall at full volume. At low volumes, it makes the tone stuffy, but at that full band volume, it really sounds killer (due to the Fletcher–Munson Curve).

Give it a shot yourself (again, make it switchable so you can turn it off if you don't like it, and play at 100dB+)

PEQ:
frequency: 770hz
Q: 0.35
dB: +4db
Peaking (if you are using the first or second band)

I might even increase it to 5 or 6db, but for now I kept it relatively conservative.

If anything, its a great solo boost since it will allow you to cut through better.
 
Good tip Tyler and it makes perfect sense to do so because of the F-M Curve.

I also find I pull the overall gain back quite a bit when I move from sub 70dB to over 80dB. It gets pretty mushy if I dont. The louder volume and sound pressure level interaction seems to negate the need for the extra gain required a lower levels.
 
I observed this too. When playing at low volume you need more gain to give the sound some 'warmth', but the higher the volume the more I have to reduce the gain to receive a balanced and tight sound without it becoming harsh.
I don't know why that is though, F-M (as far as I know this effect) can not be responsible for this, can it?
 
@gamedojo - can you post one of the presets which include your proposed switchable PEQ - And explain how you have chosen to do the switching? Are you on MFC-101?
 
kerrlehr said:
@gamedojo - can you post one of the presets which include your proposed switchable PEQ - And explain how you have chosen to do the switching? Are you on MFC-101?
Click to expand...

I don't really need to post a preset. Its simply a PEQ block right after the cab block with my above settings.

Then I've got the MFC with button #6 setup as an IA for PEQ1

guitardoc said:
I observed this too. When playing at low volume you need more gain to give the sound some 'warmth', but the higher the volume the more I have to reduce the gain to receive a balanced and tight sound without it becoming harsh.
I don't know why that is though, F-M (as far as I know this effect) can not be responsible for this, can it?
Click to expand...

my theory is that "gain" or "distortion" has to do with harmonics which extend into a very high frequency range. so what happens is you end up having WAY more high order harmonics then needed, which sounds great at low volume, but sounds exaggerated when you have high volume due to the musun curve.
 
Gamedojo said:
Ok... so, I've finally got myself an FRFR setup with my Axe. Its finally complete after picking up an 800w Crown power amp running into an SRX JBL monitor.

What this thread is about, is to suggest putting a switchable midboost PEQ into all your patches.

What I learned very quickly (which I expected) is that he low-volume patches I've created, don't have the proper EQ balanced when cranked up. I since tweaked the patches I will use live to sound better at 100db+, but there was still something missing

So I put in a few PEQs to switch on and off, and quickly found out that a generous midboost INSTANTLY gave me the hard "dig-in" feel I get with my 100watt marshall at full volume. At low volumes, it makes the tone stuffy, but at that full band volume, it really sounds killer (due to the Fletcher–Munson Curve).

Give it a shot yourself (again, make it switchable so you can turn it off if you don't like it, and play at 100dB+)

PEQ:
frequency: 770hz
Q: 0.35
dB: +4db
Peaking (if you are using the first or second band)

I might even increase it to 5 or 6db, but for now I kept it relatively conservative.

If anything, its a great solo boost since it will allow you to cut through better.
Click to expand...

You are right about it :) In all my Axe Fx II patches I've got boosted between 650-750 Hz..I play mostly loud on stage with real drums etc..This way I've got my half stack Splawn/Rivera/Cornford sound on stage :)
 
Just to extend on what Tyler is saying here, IMO it is directly related to the F-M Curve in that we perceive certain frequencies to be directly related to gain amount. Specifically frequencies in the 1500 - 4500 Hz region. There are many examples of fairly low gain sounds that because of the high frequency content are perceived as being high gain. Given that we perceive frequency content differently at different levels, this makes perfect sense why the louder a tone gets the more we need to offset the gain amount to compensate.
 
Wouldn't it be wonderful to have some automatic F-M-Curve corrector in the Axe...

First you have to tell the Axe at which level you build your presets - this is the 'default value'.

When gigging you ask the FOH guy which level they are going to give to the audience and measure the level you are having on stage (i.e. by iPhone app). Then enter the respective values in the Axe and allocate them to the respective outputs. The Axe does the rest and compensates for Fletcher-Munson...

Just dreaming... ;-)
 
Any comments on how all of this applies to those who use IEM's? I assume that nothing changes, other than the reality that I may (hopefully) be running at lower levels in my IEM's than I would be if I were using a stage monitor.

Terry.
 
Tone Seeker said:
Any comments on how all of this applies to those who use IEM's? I assume that nothing changes, other than the reality that I may (hopefully) be running at lower levels in my IEM's than I would be if I were using a stage monitor.

Terry.
Click to expand...

I don't believe in IEMs, so I have no experience. But I DON'T recommend this midboost for that sound because you should not have enough volume in your in-ears to need adjustment for the FM curve...

...of course it does get a bit complex, because this mid boost is also going FOH. So if you are running a whisper quiet gig levels, you don't want it there either.

My tip is for guys that are used to a rock concert, where your FOH is loud, and your monitoring system is loud. its meant to help you sound like you've got yourself a real cranked tube amp in this scenario.
 
I do this too before the amp block, but do a slightly more articulated boost and attach the output to an expression pedal to add between +1db and +8db, so I can roll it in as needed.

My settings are:

PEQ block (on/off with dedicated IA switch on the MFC)

F1: leave gain at 0db (not in use)
F2: 300Hz; Q:0.707; Level: +1db
F3: 600Hz; Q:0.707; Level: +1db
F4: 1200Hz; Q:1.0; Level: +1db
F5: leave gain at 0db (not in use)

I then attach a controller to an expression pedal; with a Range of Min: 0db and Max: +8db

That tends to work great for 'pushing' amps, even high gainers with more oomph when you need it; and with the expression pedal.. it's variable to change on the fly. Extremely useful and simple.
 
yes, boosting the front end of an amp with a curve centred around 650hz really works wonders. you can use the same peq block to roll off bottom end (somewhere between 80-120hz depending on the amp) to really tighten up the bass response. i think the effect is exactly the same as putting a TS with zero drive in front.

works great if you're doing rhythm and lead in the same patch. when used in conjunction with a null filter after the amp to give a slight volume hike (around 3.5db), it can really push the amp into singing sustain....lovely
 
Since my Ultra days I've been using a PEQ block before my amps and have used pretty much the exact same settings in the OP in several presets over the years. I too tune all my presets at loud, 'rock band' levels and find almost invariably I need to boost mids before the AMP block anywhere from 350Hz - 800Hz. I too find ~650Hz is where I end up at fairly often.

In isolation my presets may sound overly middy but cranked with the band and FOH it's 'all there'. For playing at lower levels I just use the Global EQ to adjust for FM, and/or just create a couple of low volume presets for practising.

I also use a pre-AMP block PEQ boost for my "Drive" pedal as well at times. I've also done that with tube amps over the years and like how you can really fine tune/voice the pre-distortion response. I consider pre-distortion voicing to be a very big key in the overall tone and feel, and is a big factor in why there are sooooo many distortion pedal flavors out there.

I've found the FAT control available in the newer firmware releases can negate the need for a pre-AMP PEQ at times for me now.
 
Last edited:
Gamedojo said:
I don't believe in IEMs, so I have no experience. I DON'T recommend this midboost for that sound because you should not have enough volume in your in-ears to need adjustment for the FM curve...
Click to expand...

I think that FM is equally applicable to IEM's, from two different perspectives. First, you do need enough volume in your ears with IEM's to enjoy your tones and the band. It's no different than playing without IEM's. When I play at low SPL's with in-ears everything sounds flat and dull. When I bring the levels up everything sounds great. The FM curves are equally at play.

Secondly, if you are playing with a stage monitor at extreme levels, your hearing is at risk. You really should be padding that level down to something safe with earplugs, in which case you're probably around the same level as the guy using IEM's. The difference IMHO is you can control the SPL to your ears more easily with IEM's, and more effectively (e.g. earplugs are far from flat and dull the highs). The other difference is that lots of guys using stage monitors play at unsafe levels, and avoid hearing protection. ;-)

Gamedojo said:
...of course it does get a bit complex, because this mid boost is also going FOH. So if you are running a whisper quiet gig levels, you don't want it there either.
Click to expand...

I really do want my IEM experience to reflect the FOH experience as much as possible. The key is to set the IEM levels high enough, yet still be safe. That's no different than with a stage monitor. If the FOH level is excessive there will have a gap. However, if the the FOH level is reasonable, my IEM should get me into the ballpark.

In real-world terms, I actually run into the same issues you describe when I use my IEM's. A crunch tone that works nicely for rhythm sounds too thin for lead work. I either add a distortion pedal in front to thicken things up, or build a separate patch with more mids. There are some great suggestions in this thread, which I'm going to try. In particular, tying a mid boot to a level boost makes a lot of sense. I usually kick in 3 or 4dB of level boost when I do a lead.

Thanks.

Terry.
 
I have a GEQ as the last element in all my live patches for exactly this. Works very well. I bump up 1k to about +1.5 and it works great for extra punch and solos.
 
Scott,

I made the adjustments per your suggestion. As a new owner, I still do not find the unit intuitive enough to assign it to an expression pedal. I am using a Mission EP-1. Of course, it is connected to the MFC.

When you have time, can you give me the steps?

Thank you very much.

Dan
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom