FRFR tests at AXE-FEST WEST 2012

Tommy Tequila said:
I think the 10" RCF would hold up quite well as a monitor. If used as a backline, I'd probably want two of them. Low end was not an issue at all, but I'm not a drop-tune/chugga-chugga kind of guy either. Engaging the free-field switch while they were on the floor gave them a large bass boost, more so than the same switch on the 12", IMHO.
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Thanks for the added info, Tommy. That might be a deal killer for me: I sometimes have to run my monitor as backline, and I need just one to be able to do it.
 
Thanks for taking the time to post the video! A lot of discussion here on monitors prior to the Axe Fest, so I anticipated the speaker shoot-out would be a popular featured event. Very cool that so much work went into answering "the" question... which is best. Well, the one you like best, of course!

I'm glad to be out of the speaker buying market now, and very satisfied with what I have. But I can't help but be interested in everyone's comments and takes on the comparison one to the next. Part of being interested in the Axe IIs capabilities, I guess! Makes for great reading.
 
ccroyalsenders said:
"FWIW,

Judging FRFR by listening to a recording on another set of speakers is ridiculous. There's no way you can make a judgment.
It's like trying to evaluate a display by looking at photos on another display."

^this
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I couldn't really decide which is better the RCFs or JBLs while I was in the room, so no wonder I can't by the video, either.
But, I could tell the FBT was less pleasing and the EAW was fuller and guitar cab like.
You could also hear that, the Matrix speakers are different, so might worth to look into. (I personally like them in person)
Interestingly enough, people could hear that through the video and probably they have better idea about it, than if we are just writing about it.

So, yes You can't make final decisions, but you can get a feeling which one would be interesting to you and which one most likely not.

Some input is better, than non.

Also, People here judge speakers by reading the forum, so comparing to that, it is huge! :D
 
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I just want the FRFR solution that most closely resembles the tone coming out of a typical FOH rig at the best price possible. I don't need it to sound cab like. I just want a solution that allows me to have no surprises when I get to the gig. The new OwnHammer IRs have gone a long way towards helping me get the tones in the ballpark but I'm compensating for the shortcomings of my monitoring equipment during patch tweaking.
 
Just a note here and a follow up to previous posts on this subject. The EAW's are not "cab like". Again, they do an excellent job of transparently producing the sound of the model and IR chosen in the Axe. (This assumes cab simulation is on and inherently assumes a mic'd cab.) I find they do an extremely good job achieving the goal Secret80'sMan describes.

I'm not pushing these. It's just that several posts have given the impression that they are a good solution for someone looking for "cab like" or "in the room" sound. They are not. The only thing that's going to give that to you is a guitar cab.
 
I hate to post this, but I will post this...

...you had to be there. NO video or recording will replace physically listening to them all. During the setup day on Friday, I walked around personally playing and checked them out. IMHO, other than physically hearing them first hand (which itself is wrought with issues - different placements in the room, etc - in variables to start with) there is no real way to 'compare' them at all.

Sorry. :(
 
hey Scott, it would have been cool to hear your Variax acoustic's running through the various FRFR systems. I'm guessing they sound great on yours?
 
MesaGuitarGuy said:
hey Scott, it would have been cool to hear your Variax acoustic's running through the various FRFR systems. I'm guessing they sound great on yours?
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Good enough sounding at least. LOL ;) :D

Seriously, it works fine. I use it all the time in that capacity. At my next gig, my setup will also double as a bass rig for a couple of sets as the keyboardist and I split bass duties because Mike won't be making the trip to outstate for the two night stand.
 
I didn't listen to all the FRFR options at Axe-fest since as Scott noted placement varied too much to really compare directly - but most sounded adequate and realistic enough to my ears to utilize in a live environment. We all know that everyone hears things differently - so ultimately it's what sounds best to you. When I last played semi-pro I sunk way too much into the PA (dragging a Midas Verona 480 into Sothern MD bars was way overkill!) - and while I appreciated the difference suspect most of the audience didn't. I was pleasantly surprised at how good the QSC's on the poles sounded in the discussion room. One option I'd like to hear would be some of the Danley Sound Lab monitors/speakers - Tom Danley has some unique ideas on professional sound design and his products receive rave reviews for intelligibility, accuracy and coverage. Drawback is they're on the high end of the budget (similar to EAW or other truly "pro" cabs) - but would be nice to A/B them with something like the QSC or JBL products to see if the design differences contribute to a (subjective) more realistic sound.
 
youngmic said:
Just a note here and a follow up to previous posts on this subject. The EAW's are not "cab like". Again, they do an excellent job of transparently producing the sound of the model and IR chosen in the Axe. (This assumes cab simulation is on and inherently assumes a mic'd cab.) I find they do an extremely good job achieving the goal Secret80'sMan describes.

I'm not pushing these. It's just that several posts have given the impression that they are a good solution for someone looking for "cab like" or "in the room" sound. They are not. The only thing that's going to give that to you is a guitar cab.
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I wish I had a pair of EAW monitors like yours Mike. Because I am only going to use them for tweaking patches and never at an actual gig (we are strictly IEM)I can't see spending all kinds of cash on them so am hoping for a cost effective solution that could get my patches 90 percent of the way they might sound FOH. This may be a tall order since I don't want to spend more than a grand for both but a brotha can dream.

I saw the video of you playing at the Axe Fest and your playing reminds me of Eric Johnson. That is mos definitely a compliment.
 
Secret80'sMan said:
I wish I had a pair of EAW monitors like yours Mike. Because I am only going to use them for tweaking patches and never at an actual gig (we are strictly IEM)I can't see spending all kinds of cash on them so am hoping for a cost effective solution that could get my patches 90 percent of the way they might sound FOH. This may be a tall order since I don't want to spend more than a grand for both but a brotha can dream.

I saw the video of you playing at the Axe Fest and your playing reminds me of Eric Johnson. That is mos definitely a compliment.
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Thanks man. I appreciate the kind words.

Before the EAW's, I was dialing in patches using an old pair of Event 20/20 monitors. Not the best. But closer to flat than most of the prosumer powered monitors out there. When I first made the switch to the EAW's, I found that the patches I had built on the Events translated very nicely. Not so much on some of the other solutions i tried. Have you tried that route yet?
 
We had one 15" Alto and it sounded okay, you could certainly work with it. I'd probably prefer a 12" (or even a 10") for a slightly tighter sound, though. IMHO, a 15" is not terribly great for the upper midrange before the horn kicks in.

At that price point, the competition is really just the Behringer Eurolives or Mackie Thump series. You should try them all to find your own preferred setup. Of those three, though, the Alto seems to be the most popular around here.

TT
 
That was my Alto in that video. As I was standing in the room listening to all of the monitors I felt that it didn't hold up to the RCF/JBL/EAW's which cost 3-4x more. However, I always thought it sounded very good at home with my personal patches. So.... I went and ordered an RCF NX12SMA (as I've heard nothing but positive about them and they sounded great at Axe-Fest) which arrived today. I'll preface this by saying I am an 8 string player so I expect whatever I'm playing out of to have a tight low end (think Animals as Leaders). Now I've only had a little under an hour to AB so don't take my word for it just yet, but I will be spending this weekend doing just that. My initial impression is that the low end on the Alto is far superior. This could be a result of a lack of tweaking to suit the RCF, but my low B and E strings sound much tighter and punchier on the Alto where as they're quite a bit less so on the RCF. The RCF seems to have more clarity to the mids and highs though. I don't want to say much more than that as my opinion is subject to change after a weekend of comparing. But bottom line, I simply DO NOT hear a $900 difference in sound quality from the RCF at this point. Updates to come next week when I feel I've really put the RCF through it's paces.
 
Make sure you set the wedge/ free field switch correctly. If you use the RCF as a wedge on the floor put that switch in the "out" position.
 
Scott Peterson said:
I talked about Fremen's presets kicking ass during my workshop. Because they do. Nuff said!
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I msg'd Fremen to request his presets months ago, but no response.

Scott (or anyone for that matter), could you send me his presets. I would be so grateful.
 
merlin17 said:
Make sure you set the wedge/ free field switch correctly. If you use the RCF as a wedge on the floor put that switch in the "out" position.
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yeah i tried both configurations right off the bat thinking I was doing something wrong. Well after a few hours of comparison here goes. The RCF has no balls as a wedge, at least not compared to what I was used to with my Alto. It's got a great sound don't get me wrong. But not nearly enough low end especially for high gain on an 8 string. I tried engaging the free-field switch on the floor just to see if that might help, but no dice. You get more bass but on the floor it sounds synthetic almost. So I pole mounted the RCF and left it in free-field. Much better.

After A/B'ing the NX12 in a free-field configuration vs the Alto as a wedge (I prefer it on the ground) it became easy to tell that the RCF is the superior monitor for clarity, midrange and touch sensitivity (which I think it has been lauded for by many users on this forum in the past). The Alto handles the extended range a bit more to my liking though, no denying that. So... how to get the best qualities of both? Run 'em together in stereo. I couldn't be happier.
 
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