FRFR tests at AXE-FEST WEST 2012

cobbler said:
Please be patient with regards to the videos as we have 20 hours of video to go through from the whole event from 3 different cameras.
So again, everyone please be patient as we have to split up the work and hopefully get some help from others to edit. It's going to be a daunting task
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Did I read the word "EDIT" ? Why, oh why ? Please, save you the hassle of doing that and release the whole schnizit :mrgreen

[/jk]Seriously, if you did, I wouldwatch all of it :) I plan to go to the States for the first time of my life next year, and if I do, I'll be waiting for the next Amp Fest dates before choosing the period. That will be a 18+ hours trip just to land in America for me :p
 
Scott Peterson said:
Quickly: The EAW's ($6K each? DANG!) ...
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Lest anyone think I'm wealthy, let me re-iterate, I paid nowhere near that amount. I got them for about what you'd pay for a pair of the nicer 12" RCF's. Also, I seem to remember that when I bought them, I found a few new ones going for between $6K and $7K for the pair. $6K each doesn't sound right. Not that $6K for the pair isn't expensive. :)

Anyway, it was one of those really fortunate finds (and I still tried to talk the guy down :) ).
 
fremen said:
Did I read the word "EDIT" ? Why, oh why ? Please, save you the hassle of doing that and release the whole schnizit :mrgreen

[/jk]Seriously, if you did, I wouldwatch all of it :) I plan to go to the States for the first time of my life next year, and if I do, I'll be waiting for the next Amp Fest dates before choosing the period. That will be a 18+ hours trip just to land in America for me :p
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If you ever come to an AxeFest, you will be one of the featured guests! You were actually mentioned during the presentation - about a patch you created.
 
youngmic said:
Lest anyone think I'm wealthy, let me re-iterate, I paid nowhere near that amount. I got them for about what you'd pay for a pair of the nicer 12" RCF's. Also, I seem to remember that when I bought them, I found a few new ones going for between $6K and $7K for the pair. $6K each doesn't sound right. Not that $6K for the pair isn't expensive. :)

Anyway, it was one of those really fortunate finds (and I still tried to talk the guy down :) ).
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D'oh! I'll edit my posts then. I read it wrong. Helluva find for sure man!!!!!!!!
 
Yeah but I guess it will show some distinction between speakers. Also, it will show what fun stuff we did.
:)
 
AlbertA said:
Judging FRFR by listening to a recording on another set of speakers is ridiculous. There's no way you can make a judgment.
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I think it is *possible*, but this situation was definitely not optimal for after-the-fact evaluations. I also kept stressing to people to move around to get a more complete picture of each system. There was a fairly wide variance among the systems in the directionality -- some were very directional, others had wider dispersion.

It is also highly dependent on your anticipated usage -- a very directional speaker may be perfect as a personal monitor, but fall down if used as a backline when you aren't running through a PA (not all of us play big stages all of the time!)

TT
 
I really appreciate all involved in this event for your time and efforts, and those who have ta en the time to post thier observations as well. It's been very enjoyable to read all about the event from attendees and participants. I really wish I could have been there.

Question: Any more observations about the EV ELX112P powered wedge? (BTW, thank you Scott for sharing your observations - much appreciated :) ).

I ask because I am currently using one of these while while I patiently contemplate better powered monitor/backline solutions with wider dispersion and flatter frequency response. I'm currently using a PEQ at the end of the signal chain specifically for the ELX112P (used the published frequency response graph as a starting point then tweaked by ear) and it sounds quite good considering the hyped lows and dodgy midrange. The EV is a decent interim dolution for me with the PEQ.

I'd be interested in hearing others observations of the EV ELX112P in this FRFR demo. Thanks! :)
 
youngmic said:
Lest anyone think I'm wealthy, let me re-iterate, I paid nowhere near that amount. I got them for about what you'd pay for a pair of the nicer 12" RCF's. Also, I seem to remember that when I bought them, I found a few new ones going for between $6K and $7K for the pair. $6K each doesn't sound right. Not that $6K for the pair isn't expensive. :)

Anyway, it was one of those really fortunate finds (and I still tried to talk the guy down :) ).
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This is you playing in this video through the EAW isn't it?
Wonderful playing, stellar tone!

 
I would love to hear what I'm missing out, yesterday I had rehearsal and I play with a verve12ma... sounded gorgeous to me and the rest of the band members.
 
Brick_top said:
I would love to hear what I'm missing out, yesterday I had rehearsal and I play with a verve12ma... sounded gorgeous to me and the rest of the band members.
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I borrowed one for a bit, and I had a hard time with the mids. There was a correction IR floating around for that speaker at the time, and I have to say it really helped to my ears!
 
It was great to have all the sets of FRFR solutions in 1 room with input from the same signal source.

I did not expect there to me so much difference between them as if they are truly FRFR in my
mind they should sound the same.

For me the RCF's stood out as sounding the best to my ears.
 
Brick_top said:
I would love to hear what I'm missing out, yesterday I had rehearsal and I play with a verve12ma... sounded gorgeous to me and the rest of the band members.
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The Verve has its vocal detractors here (looking at you, Merlyn17:)), but it is by no means unworkable. I have a couple myself and can get very good sounds through them. Some use the corrective IR to flatten it out more, others global EQ, others just go with it because that sound is a sound that fits their style. They are very solid, don't look like a PA speaker and can get really loud without crapping out.

Just be aware that if you create your patches to sound great through the Verve as a backline, it may not translate as well for FOH or recording (this is true of many systems, not just the Verve.)

TT
 
Scott Peterson said:
....The JBL/Matrix rig was very 'tight' and even. Very accurate, but $2K each for a passive speaker? Better be accurate. (They were; also noted that these are what Cliff uses to dial in the direct-to-FOH presets).....
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FWIW, MSRP for these JBLs are only $1200 and I found one used for $800, so $2K isn't really true. Now if someone is out there spending $3K plus for ONE of those EAWs, considering their size and weight, I have to really wonder what they are thinking. A) the size and weight takes away one of the best aspects of the Axe rig: Lightweight low profile rig. And B) why on EARTH would you spend that kind of money on a speaker that only you will hear?

My personal opinion is that guys should be buying PA speakers for their monitors in a range somewhere in the same average range of the PA speakers you'll be playing through so that the tone you hear from your monitor is as close to exactly whats pumping into the PA system. These dedicated AxeFx FRFR monitors are probably going to hurt your FOH sound (in my opinion) because you'll end up setting your patches to sound best through speakers that will not react or sound like the FOH speakers.

This is why I'm so impressed with my mid to high range JBL wedge. Its SO clear and tight that I can REALLY dial my patches in so that I know, in the best PA systems, there will be no questionable tone issues. Murky, smeared mids, big bass, full sounding cabs that make your Axe sound more like an amp pumping into a speaker cab is probably hiding all the subtle bad tones built into a patch. Sounds great because of how the wedge hides that stuff...but in a 110db PA system, all that shrapnell and harsh artifacts are going to pummel your audience. In a sense, you'll be reverting back to the age old problems of the Guitar/cab/mic issues pre-axefx.
 
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I think something to keep in mind is that a lot of these systems were not really designed as "FRFR" (as in studio monitor flat), but for specific purposes (either floor wedge monitor or PA/FOH speaker.) Wedges typically have tight dispersion to avoid spillover, PA types the opposite to maximize coverage and/or possibly 'enhance' certain frequencies.

Even with studio monitors that are all designed to be technically flat/neutral there are always variances in sound.

The key is just to get something that YOU are comfortable with.

TT
 
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