FRFR tests at AXE-FEST WEST 2012

I think I overheard something like, that the EAW was new product (?) and didn't even had a volume control on it yet (that's why it was louder, than the rest).
[Sorry If my info is not correct, but it was from the distance and din't try to eavesdrop on purpose]
 
I think I overheard something like, that the EAW was new product (?) and didn't even had a volume control on it yet (that's why it was louder, than the rest).
[Sorry If my info is not correct, but it was from the distance and din't try to eavesdrop on purpose]

See my previous post. They aren't new.
 
keep in mind that the factory preset were tweaked through that setup (that is cliff's setup); so it has a slight advantage in that regard.

That's what I was thinking as well.
The JBL did sound excellent though.

Java, when you mentioned the RCF 10's, did you mean the ART310 or the NX10?
 
That's what I was thinking as well.
The JBL did sound excellent though.

Java, when you mentioned the RCF 10's, did you mean the ART310 or the NX10?

Java and I were talking about this and he was referring to the RCF Nx10. I agree with what he said as well. The RCF Nx10 sounded very good.
 
Java and I were talking about this and he was referring to the RCF Nx10. I agree with what he said as well. The RCF Nx10 sounded very good.

Agreed, the RCF Nx10 and the RCF Nx12 sounded very similar. Scott P. said, "look at that thing, isn't that so cute?" in referencing the smaller speaker.

Also, I have to mention that the RCF Nx12 is really light for something that has an amp in it. Especially compared to FBTs, which are pretty heavy.
 
i am sure in person those sounded amazing, but this clip does nothing to bring that out. to me sounds terrible, it has to have something to do with the recording
 
Hi all,

I was the one that put together the FRFR shootout system and contributed the RCF ART310a and (much loved:)) Verves, so ask away if you have any questions. Btw, it was probably mid-day Saturday before I got the EAW's under control by putting a small mixer in-line with them. Before then they were just massively louder than the rest of the systems when switching around. We also had a pair of Event BAS 20/20 studio monitors, 11 systems available at the touch of a button in all. They were roughly level matched using a phone on Friday night.

To answer a few questions from earlier in the thread: The TS Alto was a 15", the EV was an ELX112P. All of the systems were self powered except the JBL and Matrix CFR12 systems. The Matrix used a 1000, the JBL a Carvin. The JBL/Carvin setup basically duplicated Cliff's personal setup, though he did comment that he thought that it was lacking some bass. My theory is that the speakers were new and not broken in yet, hence the difference (being in a big, echoing ballroom probably had something to do with it as well.) They certainly got a good workout, though, as all of the systems could be played REALLY loud.

The patches were stock v7 banks using firmware 8.02, I believe.

I also had a laptop set up with various backing tracks so that people could get an idea of the actual range of the speakers.

TT
 
.... The 10in Rcf was a surprise, it sounded really good, even beside the Rcf 12s.

Yea the first FRFR speaker I used with my Ultra was the RCF 310 and it does sound a lot bigger then it physically is...compared to my Tannoy V12 coax that I use now the 310 has a boomier, low end bump and is much more toppy/shrill but I did get great sounds out of it for sure. It took a lot of punishment over many gigs in various environments and I never had a problem with it...

I still use the 310 for other applications...it's a really nice vocal/sidewash monitor...I jammed last week with a friend who played thru it with a Spector bass with my Sansamp PSA-1, and it sounded very nice indeed.
 
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I was the one that put together the FRFR shootout system and contributed the RCF ART310a and (much loved:)) Verves, so ask away if you have questions

Thanks for being so generous Tommy.

My first question would be....was there a point in the weekend where folks all gathered to do a critical listening and compare all of the frfr's....or did individuals all do it at their leisure?
Where I'm going with the question is....(if there was a point where all folks got together to assess all of the speakers) would there be some type of video or (high quality) audio that gives a solid review....or maybe some collective opinions?
I'm loving all the info coming out so far...just want to know what to and what not to expect.
Thanks.
 
Sunday’s attendees all went over to the gear room for 30 to 40 minutes and did an FRFR exhibition. Cooper "Solo a Day" Carter played a high gain riff repeatedly and we went from speaker(s) to speaker(s). The same scenario was repeated with him playing a clean tone and then Tommy ran a blues type backing track. We filmed it and recorded it with a Zoom Q3HD for audio. Please be patient with regards to the videos as we have 20 hours of video to go through from the whole event from 3 different cameras.

I cannot thank Jack "videovis" Donaldson and Scott Burrow enough as Jack ran two cameras for the whole 20 hours and Scott ran the other. HUGE HUGE KUDOS!!!!!!!

So again, everyone please be patient as we have to split up the work and hopefully get some help from others to edit. It's going to be a daunting task.

It was generally agreed upon that the more expensive speakers had the better sound but that overall every pair had “their” sound that could be tweaked to make up differences. I personally liked the JBL’s and RCF’s. And surprisingly to myself I liked the RCF NX10’s better than the NX12’s. But that again is just my personal preference.
 
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Thanks for being so generous Tommy.

My first question would be....was there a point in the weekend where folks all gathered to do a critical listening and compare all of the frfr's....or did individuals all do it at their leisure?
Where I'm going with the question is....(if there was a point where all folks got together to assess all of the speakers) would there be some type of video or (high quality) audio that gives a solid review....or maybe some collective opinions?
I'm loving all the info coming out so far...just want to know what to and what not to expect.
Thanks.

Yes, there was a "field trip" where Matt had everyone in the main room troop on over to the demo room to listen to all of the systems. That happened Sunday, so the EAW were gone but a pair of K10's had arrived. They did video it, but the guy was pretty much just holding it way up over his head to be able to get a view over the top of the people milling around.

As for a collective opinion, the consensus was that all of the systems sounded different, but all were also workable/usable. I'll post my own opinions a bit later after I've had time to really sort them out.

I do like the idea of doing a quality audio recording, but I don't know if that happened -- it was a rush just to get everything together. If we do it again, I'd love to set a loop going and position a good mic at the optimum angle for each and just move it from system to system to get a really fair comparison. That would be done early in the morning or after the show to allow for a more controlled environment...

TT
 
This is great news. Will definitely be patient....just wanted to know what may eventually be coming.

20 to 30 hours of vid footage! Very daunting task!

Thanks in advance for all the hard work guys.
 
To reiterate what Tommy said. There were 25 people standing there and the Audio was recorded by holding the Zoom recorder a foot or two over their heads. It was NOT a controlled and precise enviroment so do not get your hopes up for that. You will though be able to tell the differences between the offerings in a relative manner.

As the people who were there know, we crammed as much as we could into the time available and we had to adapt as we went along.
 
After listening to all of solutions quite a few times from this vid going back and forth the RCF NX series sounded the best, at least from this recording. The QSC's sounded good on the cleans but the distorted tone did not sound that great. The Verves sounded really bad in comparison, I understand now why merlin did not like these speakers.

The EAW's sounded really good also, it's to bad that who ever was demoing did not spend the same amount of time on each solution... some had clean demos and some didn't. The ALTOS didn't sound all that bad ether considering that they were going up against speaker 3-7 time the cost. The CRF's sounded really good also but the recording angle was not that great and things really change when you have people walking between the camera and the speaker.

So I have to ask what happened to Atomic? I thought they were going to attend. I look forward to a controlled review and other vids that you guys have worked so hard on great job!
 
To reiterate what Tommy said. There were 25 people standing there and the Audio was recorded by holding the Zoom recorder a foot or two over their heads. It was NOT a controlled and precise enviroment so do not get your hopes up for that. You will though be able to tell the differences between the offerings in a relative manner.

As the people who were there know, we crammed as much as we could into the time available and we had to adapt as we went along.

Still great to hear that a large population of folks listened to Corey play the same patches, with the same guitar, in the same room, through all of these speakers....as I'm sure there will be many opinions coming on how these compared.
 
I did a shoot out on Friday night (before the show, very small group) and there were lots of people doing their own shootouts on Saturday (I got to hear the EAW's but not after the volume discrepancy was solved) and then the 'field trip' version on Sunday that the Axe-Fest group did with camera's (for video) and the Zoom HD rolling (for sound).

My take away was that any of the speakers could work for any given person. At the same time, you get what you pay for with these speakers. Truly. The value speakers there were good for value speakers.

Quickly: The EAW's ($3K each? DANG!) were monsters in every way - big, heavy, loud and GOOD. The JBL/Matrix rig was very 'tight' and even. Very accurate, but $2K each for a passive speaker? Better be accurate. (They were; also noted that these are what Cliff uses to dial in the direct-to-FOH presets). The RCF's NX 12SMA were my personal faves; I just felt they sounded 'right' to me. I will note that might be personal bias, I've used these speakers now for a year and am very comfortable with them; they just sound 'right' to me. I was HIGHLY impressed with the RCF NX 10SMA... that's really impressive. One 10" speaker holding up very well there (see guys, you don't need stereo to sound good after all... told you! LOL). The value RCF speakers sounded like good value speakers. Of the K-Series, I prefer the 10 over the 12. The 10 sounds more balanced of the 2 QSC offerings to me. The Matrix CFR sounded more like a conventional guitar speaker; for the money, a great value and quite loud. There was some mention of a 'smeared' mid; I felt they exhibited a boxy sort of sound. They were located between the RCF (around $1600 each street price (though contact Mike Pyle before you pay that!) and the JBL $2000 each passives. The Matrix speakers are considerably more affordable than either of those (though you do need a separate power amp). The FBT 12ma(which I admit to maligning quite frequently - sorry Tommy!) just have too much bass around 100Hz for me. (*Note I owned and really LOVED the FBT 8ma though!!!). The EV has a similar character IMHO to the QSC; it's got that 'hot' upper mid thing that grates my ears at volume over time (but I did recommend it to my Keyboard player and he bought one, uses it and loves it).

Here are some pics from the Sunday version of the shootout:

2012-10-07_14-21-45_645.jpg

2012-10-07_14-20-49_694.jpg


Special thanks to Tommy for setting that up - sourced the tones from one Axe-FX, volume balanced across all of them. Absolutely the most informative FRFR shoot out I've ever heard in my life. Kudos!!!!!!

Short version: I'm not buying or selling anything FRFR related other than what I own. I'm happy. Other speakers held up very well, each had their own character but any would work given enough time and work into EQ'ing them. The value you get for your money spent with any of these speakers seemed to match up with my general opinion of them. But I still like mine... and that's good. I'm too poor to go buying more speakers!

The wildcards still out there is both the powered Matrix and the much anticipated Atomic CLR. I hope to personally try them (and anything else that comes out too!).

FWIW - freaking love this stuff.
 
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