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FRFR Project Ideas

Tom Morris

Forum Addict
The tweeter/horn driver screws right onto the back of the 12" woofer. Shoots right through the middle of it.
Screen Shot 2019-06-04 at 11.47.00 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-06-04 at 11.45.57 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-06-04 at 11.46.04 PM.png
 

200man

Veteran
@Tom Morris ...understood & thanks

The driver installed: Recommended Crossover 2.5 kHz / 18 dBkHz
right, you’ll never get to 1.6 kHz

The 2002s: Recommended Crossover 1.2 kHz / 12 dBkHz
I see where yer going...it is quite a bit heavier at 4.7lbs

I kind of like this driver:
The neodymium driver 1.7lbs.... N151M-8: Recommended Crossover 1.8 kHz @ 12 dBkHz

What I don’t yet visualize yet is the wave pathway design, exiting the driver thru the woofer...as there would be opportunity for distortion to be introduced here. Is it just a smooth straight hole and then ...out thru the dust cap? I assume so.

Here’s a test of the neodymium driver attached to a CD horn.
https://www.audioxpress.com/article/test-bench-eminence-n151m-8-1-compression-driver
The Atomic CLR speakers utilize what looks to be something like these cd horns attached to their speaker
 
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200man

Veteran
Okay...correction...I need to figure out which tweeters screw into the woofers.
The only picture of a screw-in driver on their site that I see is the asd-1001.
 

200man

Veteran
Okay...correction...I need to figure out which tweeters screw into the woofers.
The only picture of a screw-in driver on their site that I see is the asd-1001.
Answering myself here:
Got an email from eminence technical support:
The coaxial woofers will accept any 1" exit with an 1 3/8" mounting screw.
This includes the F110M-8, APT:50, and ASD:1001.
You can also use a B2S-A adaptor to mount 1" exit bolt-on drivers.
Sent another email but I believe then the neodymium may be used with the adaptor...if so it is probably a better hf driver than the asd_1001

Here's the only link I could find for the adaptor: http://www.eminence.com/pro-audio/hf-products-components/horn-flares/

Links to other bolt-ons other than the ASD:1001...although they do not appear to be as nice as the asd:1001
F110M-8: http://www.eminence.com/speakers/driver-detail/?model=F110M_8
APT:50: http://www.eminence.com/speakers/driver-detail/?model=APT50
 

200man

Veteran
now that i’ve seen a pic of the atomic clr with the grille off... egads it’s not a coaxial...it’s a hf driver suspended over the woofer:
808BCD23-6DD6-4CF7-9A7A-72615909AABA.jpeg
When I designed a mid range horn inset in the mid bass of a design, I had to calculate the size of the horn relative to the mid bass to ensure the mid bass frequencies would wrap around the horn appropriately. EV had a technical paper on the calculations and the physics behind it.
 
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Tom Morris

Forum Addict
I been deep in the speaker rabbit hole this week. Bought an Atomic CLR and a Friedman ASM-12. After comparing those to my passive Xitone and Matrix amp I have decided to go with two Friedman ASM-12s. All of these speakers are the standard and you can dial in a great sound on all of them. Most of what I play is medium to high gain stuff. I'm at a disadvantage being I'm trying to get my rig to sound Like a real amp and 4x12 my bandmate plays through. If I were the only guitarist or he used a modeler I could be happy with any of these speakers. Setting up all 3 speakers and using a factory preset this is my take on each one.

Xitone: Loud as you want to make it. Sounds good across the whole frequency range. However I have been struggling with these trying to remove sort of a honky mid out of them. To be fair I ordered empty cabs from Xitone with intentions of running V30's in them with a mesa 2:90 power amp then decided I really wanted to go FRFR so I bought the components and installed them my self. I feel if the horn diaphragm was bigger and crossed over lower than 2500hz would solve my personal issue with them. Mind you mine are passive cabinets, the active cabs my sound different the way Mick tweaks the active EQ in them. Haven't had the opportunity to try one. Out of the three I think these have the most headroom without sounding shitty/muddy.
Lightest of the three.

Atomic CLR: Loud as you want to make it. compared to the Xitone and Friedman this speaker has the most abusive high end. I think with this one its horn crosses over at a lower frequency than the other two and has more volume to the horn. This thing will literally cut flat tops on the heads of everyone in a 30-40 foot range lol. On this one it feels as if its missing some low mid frequencies. Something just seems off to me. Bought used who knows what's inside or whats been done to it. Older non neo model.
For it's size it's awkward heavy.

Friedman ASM-12: Loud as you want to make it. It's a big cabinet 13 ply baltic birch painted, that being said it has a lot of wood tone to it which adds to that amp in the room feel to me. Loaded with a Celetion 12" and Celestion driver. In my opinion this unit has the smoothest coverage across frequencies. It sounds big in the room, it feels big in the room and I think its the easiest to EQ to taste.
Heavy heavy heavy and bulky. Handle in a retarded place. I'm thinking a jigsaw and two inset handles are in my future.

I have searched a lot of content on the net. This one says this is the best, that one says that's the best. The only way to really know is have them all in front of you and tweak till you find what makes you happy. At this time my main goal is whats coming out of my speakers more so that whats going on in FOH.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
A CLR doesn’t have abusive high end. It’s the most flat monitor out there (in its price range and above).

The CLR has some roll-off in the lows, but that only impacts its use as a bass amp or PA speaker.

As with all FR solutions, loud volume levels require low-passing or adjustment of the amp controls.
 

Tom Morris

Forum Addict
Yek as I said this is my opinion. I should have mentioned I set low cut at 80 and high at 8000 in the speaker cab. Just one opinion in an ocean full of them.
 

MicFarlow

Veteran
Mick have you tried the larger diaphragm 2” Eminence PSD:2002S-8 1" Titanium Driver 8 Ohm and a passive crossover that is lower than 2500 hz say maybe 1600-1800 hz? I feel like it may be easier to get where im trying to go in the mid range if 1600 hz was more in the horn. I keep looking at the parts thinking I should buy and try but figured I would ask your opinion first.
Yes we have used the PSD:2002S-8... great tweeter... it's just heavy and when shipped, it kept destroying the magnet of the 12CX... We tried shipping it many different ways and still had them damage the 12CX... the magnet on that tweeter is the same size and weight as the one on the 12CX... adding that much weight that far from the basket was asking for problems in shipping.

The ASD1001 sounds as good as the 2002 though and is much smaller and lighter so it'll survive bumps.... never had one damage a 12CX actually.
 

Tom Morris

Forum Addict
Wow thanks for the info. Thats a shame about things getting destroyed in shipping. I must say this, I think it would be really hard to find any other company that puts as much care into packaging a product as Mick and Xitone does. Two layers of hard cardboard boxes and killer foam corner protectors that fit snug as a bug in a rug. Outstanding!
 

200man

Veteran
the Celestion F12-X200 is ceramic, includes XO, but only weighs 9.1 lbs., ~$175...
If it sounds good, that’s hard to beat...just need a great mono chip amp. Lighter than the eminence neo coax types.
 

200man

Veteran
Seymour Duncan PowerStage 170 - 2lbs.

That’s it then!
Celestion F12-X200 and SD PowerStage 170....11.1 lbs....
Okay...next...highest strength, lowest weight plywood.... :)
 
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