FRFR: I Admit I Prefer It

I hear you!
In the past on varies cabinets, have used "Beam Blockers" on the speakers, and they work very well but can cause other problems (nothing major). But still ...... Something else to compensate for. The speaker of choice at the time was V30's. In the end I went to Guitar Warehouse Speakers the "Veteran 30. The V30 flavor for sure, with was less shrill, at first disliked what I was hearing, just so use to compensating for the shrill. That they sounded kind of flat to me, in the end liked them allot. But that's history now.

Been a FRFR guy for about 6-7 years now, don't see myself going back, and don't get me wrong I love the real deal !
Don't have to list reasons why I feel this way since everybody who posted above me has it covered.

John
Beam Blockers don't really work. What works well is Jay Mitchell's donut mod, cheap and easy.
http://blog.thegearpage.net/?page_id=424

If the issue is solely with the beaminess of guitar speakers with some of the posters here, you don't have to go full FRFR to not have beaminess.
 
Most of the sounds people chase are heard on recordings - when people want the EVH brown sound they are almost always referencing eddie’s recorded sound on some song, not the sound they heard in eddie’s living room while he was jamming in front of them. I am puzzled why guitarists think they should be able to replicate studio recordings of their favorite guitarists with an amp in the room.

Yep. I hear that. That's why I never considered FRFR speakers before. I do think that the new way of looking at things (using IR's through FRFR speakers) is going to change the way people hear guitar, in general. Literally, and in context with live bands and music in general. I actually am looking forward to some kind of evolution or paradigm shift in the Guitar World, and I think that we are heading towards that new age. Especially considering how everything in the music business has been changing in the past 10 to 15 years. Maybe in 20 years, tube amps and standard guitar cabs will be more a rarity than the rule.
 
I play metal (classic/traditional/power) in a band with a 2nd guitarist, and picked up a GT1000 to go with my AX8 (replacing JVM410 & 6505+ heads), to feed 1960a & Mesa OS Recto 4x12 cabs. If I were to try FRFR, what would you (and everyone else) advise I get, considering I already have a GT1000, and need to push air equivalent to the 4x12's ? - Live stage volume, and uniformity, is important for the band sound (it is metal, after all) and I fear going direct with IEM's would feel unnatural for myself (hard to generate feedback), some of the band, and to the audience directly in front of the stage.

Atomic Amps active CLR wedges are the best FRFR monitors I've tried below 2500-3000 $ a piece.
At a lower budget the DXR10's are quite good
 
I play metal (classic/traditional/power) in a band with a 2nd guitarist, and picked up a GT1000 to go with my AX8 (replacing JVM410 & 6505+ heads), to feed 1960a & Mesa OS Recto 4x12 cabs. If I were to try FRFR, what would you (and everyone else) advise I get, considering I already have a GT1000, and need to push air equivalent to the 4x12's ? - Live stage volume, and uniformity, is important for the band sound (it is metal, after all) and I fear going direct with IEM's would feel unnatural for myself (hard to generate feedback), some of the band, and to the audience directly in front of the stage.

I also have a matrix (gt800). Before that I was playing through a Mesa 2:90. I have the matrix close to where I used to have my Mesa through two 4x12’s (oversized Mills Acoustics cabs with v30’s). Since my Mesa blew, I decided to give the matrix a whirl with frfr. I ordered two XiTone 12” passives (should be here this week) to play through the matrix. I plan on gigging with the new rig soon. I’ll fill you in on how my crack at it goes. I have seen many different opinions on this forum and I decided to just try for myself. I think everyone is pretty picky about their tones (why else would you spend thousands on your rig?). A lot of people liked the XiTone cab. The actives used to come with matrix amps built in, so I figured my gt800 and the XiTone Passives were a good start.

I like the idea of having a power amp because you can always play other cabs if you decide. If you go active, and just use the axe-fx, that’s what you have. I recently played with another band and plugged into their Marshall’s. With a quick eq tweak I was good to go. All situations are unique of coarse.

I hear people talking about weight considerations as a reason for going with active frfr cabs, but I don’t see this as an issue with the matrix amp. Especially after owning the 2:90 in a rolling shock proof rack with two drawers. The gt800 is under 10lbs.

Looking forward to my new cabs arrival so I can test the research!
 
I’m totally in the FRFR camp. For years now. I know what I’m hearing, and I have a better idea of what it sounds like in the house. And you just can’t approach that range of tones with a traditional cab. I don’t miss the old way at all.

Here's what I've been debating...I really "want to want" to jump into the frfr world, but most of where its advantageous doesn't apply to me. I don't play live, I don't move my rig, I don't use a ton of a different tones, and I only play with one other guitarist. So FOH consistency, portability, versatility, and band mix aren't really anything I'm concerned with. Actually with regards to band mix, I almost feel like it would be detrimental since we already have a good thing going in our rehearsal space with our respective stacks.

That said... It would simplify my setup since I'm currently running three signal chains through the axe2 and frfr would eliminate one of them. And the dispersion aspect would be nice.

I just hate to think about spending more than 1000$ to get a decent frfr setup to try and end up hating it. Or spending a few hundred on something affordable but ending up with a false impression of frfr and giving up on it prematurely. I also can't imagine playing through a single 1x12 and feeling satisfied, it just defies logic for me. Right now I'm running a 2x12 plus a pair of 1x12's. Even at low conversational volumes, the sound/feel isn't right if I don't have all 4 cylinders going.

I'm torn on it, but every time I start looking back into it and reading up on it, I again realize that just about every proponent of frfr has a situation vastly different to mine, and all of the benefits I ever hear about them don't really apply to me outside a few niceties that aren't quite worth losing what I already love about my rig.
 
I also have a matrix (gt800). Before that I was playing through a Mesa 2:90. I have the matrix close to where I used to have my Mesa through two 4x12’s (oversized Mills Acoustics cabs with v30’s). Since my Mesa blew, I decided to give the matrix a whirl with frfr. I ordered two XiTone 12” passives (should be here this week) to play through the matrix. I plan on gigging with the new rig soon. I’ll fill you in on how my crack at it goes. I have seen many different opinions on this forum and I decided to just try for myself. I think everyone is pretty picky about their tones (why else would you spend thousands on your rig?). A lot of people liked the XiTone cab. The actives used to come with matrix amps built in, so I figured my gt800 and the XiTone Passives were a good start.

I like the idea of having a power amp because you can always play other cabs if you decide. If you go active, and just use the axe-fx, that’s what you have. I recently played with another band and plugged into their Marshall’s. With a quick eq tweak I was good to go. All situations are unique of coarse.

I hear people talking about weight considerations as a reason for going with active frfr cabs, but I don’t see this as an issue with the matrix amp. Especially after owning the 2:90 in a rolling shock proof rack with two drawers. The gt800 is under 10lbs.

Looking forward to my new cabs arrival so I can test the research!
Very interested in your feedback as I am thinking of order these as well for use with a Matrix Gt100FX.

Thanks,
Derek
 
Here's what I've been debating...I really "want to want" to jump into the frfr world, but most of where its advantageous doesn't apply to me. I don't play live, I don't move my rig, I don't use a ton of a different tones, and I only play with one other guitarist. So FOH consistency, portability, versatility, and band mix aren't really anything I'm concerned with. Actually with regards to band mix, I almost feel like it would be detrimental since we already have a good thing going in our rehearsal space with our respective stacks.

That said... It would simplify my setup since I'm currently running three signal chains through the axe2 and frfr would eliminate one of them. And the dispersion aspect would be nice.

I just hate to think about spending more than 1000$ to get a decent frfr setup to try and end up hating it. Or spending a few hundred on something affordable but ending up with a false impression of frfr and giving up on it prematurely. I also can't imagine playing through a single 1x12 and feeling satisfied, it just defies logic for me. Right now I'm running a 2x12 plus a pair of 1x12's. Even at low conversational volumes, the sound/feel isn't right if I don't have all 4 cylinders going.

I'm torn on it, but every time I start looking back into it and reading up on it, I again realize that just about every proponent of frfr has a situation vastly different to mine, and all of the benefits I ever hear about them don't really apply to me outside a few niceties that aren't quite worth losing what I already love about my rig.
Do what works for you. But if you get a chance to borrow a good FRFR monitor, it might be worth your time to hook it up and give it a try.
 
Do what works for you. But if you get a chance to borrow a good FRFR monitor, it might be worth your time to hook it up and give it a try.

Yeah I'd kill for that opportunity. I'm more in the spot where I'm considering buying something like an Alto TS212 to give it a whirl, I'm just not sure if its worth the money to try something like that, because I'm kind of comparing it to trying a marshall MG series cab and swearing off guitar cabs because that one sounds terrible.

Basically I definitely think FRFR is worth trying, but I'm not seeing enough benefit on paper to drop a few grand on something like CLR's and I'm kind of just paralyzed on not wasting money on a lower cost entry, but not having money to burn on the real deal.

Meh.
 
Yeah I'd kill for that opportunity. I'm more in the spot where I'm considering buying something like an Alto TS212 to give it a whirl, I'm just not sure if its worth the money to try something like that, because I'm kind of comparing it to trying a marshall MG series cab and swearing off guitar cabs because that one sounds terrible.
In your rehearsal space, what are you running the singer through? If you can hear the singer while you're playing, you've got FRFR right there. ;)
 
In your rehearsal space, what are you running the singer through? If you can hear the singer while you're playing, you've got FRFR right there. ;)
Nah, its just us two guitarists...occasionally we'll run programmed drums through a set of studio monitors, someday in the future we might bring in a bassist but basically only when it comes time to record tracks. So its basically just two guitar players having a good time playing some death metal.

I spent the past couple years overseas & was running exclusively through those same studio monitors (equatoraudio D5's) for a good long while. I got used to it, but definitely hated it every time I got the opportunity to run through a real cab and then had to go back to the studio monitors. So I'm really just wondering if thats a thing of me not getting along as well with FRFR, or with 5" studio monitors just not having enough punch to get any good feel out of them.

I'm one that will sing the praises of FRFR for the gigging musician, I'm just not sure it really fits for my particular scenario. In Abu Dhabi there was actually a bar I went to all the time where a band ran everything direct--electronic kit, axefx & ax8 for guitars, bass I think was pedals into a DI box--and it sounded absolutely phenomenal, they just used IEM's and a couple stage monitors and it was super consistent killer tone night after night. A couple of cabs in that bar would have been a nightmare to deal with compared to a direct setup like that.

I want something like that Matrix FR212 pretty bad, I just don't have $1000+ to drop on one, especially if I end up preferring my cabs anyways since I don't have any real "NEED" to switch to FRFR.

Eventually I'll bury this horse of mine, but for now it seems I just gotta get a few more good knocks in. I think I forget all of this every couple of months, then start thinking about FRFR again, then start looking back into and coming back to all the same realizations and then just stick with my cabs again. So it goes.
 
...occasionally we'll run programmed drums through a set of studio monitors...
Ding! Ding! Ding! Try those monitors. At least you'll get the chance to compare them to your D5s.


I spent the past couple years overseas & was running exclusively through those same studio monitors (equatoraudio D5's) for a good long while. I got used to it, but definitely hated it every time I got the opportunity to run through a real cab and then had to go back to the studio monitors. So I'm really just wondering if thats a thing of me not getting along as well with FRFR, or with 5" studio monitors just not having enough punch to get any good feel out of them.
Ding! again. Studio monitors just can't deliver the punch required for love playing. Not enough poop in the chute.


I want something like that Matrix FR212 pretty bad, I just don't have $1000+ to drop on one, especially if I end up preferring my cabs anyways since I don't have any real "NEED" to switch to FRFR.
Understood. Still, keep an eye open for the opportunity to borrow (or even rent) a pair, just so you have some background for when you are ready to buy.
[/QUOTE]
 
Ding! Ding! Ding! Try those monitors. At least you'll get the chance to compare them to your D5s.

Ding! again. Studio monitors just can't deliver the punch required for love playing. Not enough poop in the chute.

Understood. Still, keep an eye open for the opportunity to borrow (or even rent) a pair, just so you have some background for when you are ready to buy.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah definitely agree with what you're saying, except the D5's are the monitors for the drums ;) They're the only FRFR speakers in the space, everything else is guitar/bass cabs. Hadn't thought about renting, might need to see what the options would be locally for that.
 
Yeah definitely agree with what you're saying, except the D5's are the monitors for the drums ;) They're the only FRFR speakers in the space, everything else is guitar/bass cabs. Hadn't thought about renting, might need to see what the options would be locally for that.
So get there early and plug into 'em before the drummer arrives and takes them back. :)
 
Tonight at rehearsal I put one CLR at my feet (tilt mode) and one on a flight case beside me (BL mode). Man, that put me right in the zone. What a sound.
 
Yeah I'd kill for that opportunity. I'm more in the spot where I'm considering buying something like an Alto TS212 to give it a whirl

Thought I'd chime in and say if you do get the Alto, take how it sounds with a grain of salt when looking at it as FRFR. The whole thing is plastic and it definitely reflects in the sound. Comparing it to my Mackie HD1221, its definitely in a different league. When up at volume, it certainly works in a band setting but IMHO it sounds like just how you'd expect something to sound in a plastic enclosure vs birch. It has its advantages, mainly weight and price, but its not something I'd recommend to someone looking to be convinced of how good FRFR is.
 
So get there early and plug into 'em before the drummer arrives and takes them back. :)

Haha I think you're misunderstanding. Its only me and another guitarist, he has a (tube) halfstack, I have (axefx/matrix) halfstack. I've got studio monitors (5" desk monitors) hooked up to the computer which we run midi drums through for tracking. We're the only two humans involved though. Regardless, I get what you're saying, I just don't think running through a set of studio monitors gives me an accurate impression of what to expect from a pair of CLR's or a 2x12 matrix frfr cab etc. I'll figure out a way to give it a shot someday, at least until then I have the advantage of not needing it at all since I'll probably never move that rig out of the practice space or need to play live anywhere. Its all just gear for the sake of gear & the eternal tone hunt for me ;)

Thought I'd chime in and say if you do get the Alto, take how it sounds with a grain of salt when looking at it as FRFR. The whole thing is plastic and it definitely reflects in the sound. Comparing it to my Mackie HD1221, its definitely in a different league. When up at volume, it certainly works in a band setting but IMHO it sounds like just how you'd expect something to sound in a plastic enclosure vs birch. It has its advantages, mainly weight and price, but its not something I'd recommend to someone looking to be convinced of how good FRFR is.

Yeah thats pretty much the reason why I haven't bought one. I don't need it for the sake of having a portable frfr solution, I just could afford to grab one for the purpose of trying out FRFR. Given that it seems to be a pretty universal opinion that they're not much of anything like the matrix/clr/xitone level stuff, I don't think it would be fair of me to base an opinion of frfr on one. I'll probably just wait until I can find/afford a better one either used or new. We'll see.

Thats enough thread derailment from me, but I do appreciate the discussion.
 
Haha I think you're misunderstanding. Its only me and another guitarist, he has a (tube) halfstack, I have (axefx/matrix) halfstack. I've got studio monitors (5" desk monitors) hooked up to the computer which we run midi drums through for tracking. We're the only two humans involved though. Regardless, I get what you're saying, I just don't think running through a set of studio monitors gives me an accurate impression of what to expect from a pair of CLR's or a 2x12 matrix frfr cab etc. I'll figure out a way to give it a shot someday, at least until then I have the advantage of not needing it at all since I'll probably never move that rig out of the practice space or need to play live anywhere. Its all just gear for the sake of gear & the eternal tone hunt for me ;)



Yeah thats pretty much the reason why I haven't bought one. I don't need it for the sake of having a portable frfr solution, I just could afford to grab one for the purpose of trying out FRFR. Given that it seems to be a pretty universal opinion that they're not much of anything like the matrix/clr/xitone level stuff, I don't think it would be fair of me to base an opinion of frfr on one. I'll probably just wait until I can find/afford a better one either used or new. We'll see.

Thats enough thread derailment from me, but I do appreciate the discussion.
You already have a Matrix, so go for a passive Xitone or two. Used should be under $1000, no problem.
 
Yeah, started looking at those today. Still gonna be a while, I'll either have to find something to sell to pay for it, or just wait. Just built a house & moved in a few weeks ago, so the getting the fence & the shed & the furniture & everything else is putting a serious damper on my G.A.S. Other option in that range would be the matrix FR212, which I'm drawn to because I just love 2x12's.
 
Yeah, started looking at those today. Still gonna be a while, I'll either have to find something to sell to pay for it, or just wait. Just built a house & moved in a few weeks ago, so the getting the fence & the shed & the furniture & everything else is putting a serious damper on my G.A.S. Other option in that range would be the matrix FR212, which I'm drawn to because I just love 2x12's.
My experience is that 2x12 vs 1x12 is different with FRFR... And 2 1x12 cabs allows for better stereo spread!

Also, start with 1... That's what I did :)
 
Good point, and not a bad idea. Luckily we generally play quiet enough that a 1x12, even a traditional one, is honestly enough power to be just fine. I'll have to keep an eye out on reverb or here & see if I can ever snag a deal. I don't think stereo spread is going to really be a thing for me...my whole stack is tucked in a corner. (ETA: tongue in cheek, of course if I had a pair of frfr cabs I'd at some point at least for a while give them a nice spread and play the hell out of some huge stereo ambient patches)

IMG_3168-1.jpg
 
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