FRFR difference

andyp13

andyp13

Power User
IV been using the Q12 FRFR on my live gigs and am quite happy with it.... Today I tried an RCF TT08a - (with the 8" speaker) - I must say it made the 12" Q12 sound thin weedy and cheap. It really was that different (I should hope so at nearly three times the price).
My only worry about using it live though is that it was much more bassy than the Q12 and with a gorgeous warm round top end.... So if I was to cut the bass and increase the treble (my Amp setting bass is on about ten-to at the moment, and treble at around ten-past, it may end up being not to great sounding out front (no bass and too thin).... Can't believe the difference in the tone and sound between these two speakers - and I don't know which one is telling the truth....
 
Stillbruch said:
Were the listening conditions comparable? Was the RCF TT08a much closer to a wall and on the ground?
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Both in front of me - The RCF on the dollar pointing up at not and the Q12 on another cab at head hight.. I like the Q12 but on hearing the RCF I could not believe the difference in sound - the RCF sounds huge.
 
RCF makes great speakers. The TT08 is discontinued BTW.
 
And really, that's the difference between FRFR's (difference in this case is probably not the precise word to use, but you get the jist of it)

I've recently learned to re-embrace FRFR, and I've learned that you can tweak and tweak and tweak your FRFR solution (be it a cab, passive FRFR or active FRFR or even a PA speaker), and no matter how much tweaking you do do, it'll sound different through the next FRFR solution that you plug into. That's FRFR. Some will be more flatter than others, some will have a warmer, more natural tone, and the next one will be different yet again.

And to finish my point, it's a mixed bag of lollies that you'll get when go direct to FOH etc because that tone will be different yet again. At the risk of sounding pessimistic, it's often a gamble going direct; your hope is that the sound guy has half a clue of what he needs to do, and secondly, you'd hope that your cab sims/IRs are on point..
 
Not necessarily. The difference between RCF NX12-SMA, Dynacord AXM-12a and Atomic CLR wedge are mostly in feel, the frequency spectrum is very similar (I had all three at the same time and settled with the Dynacord). Now I have a BlueAmps Spark FRFR cab (stereo) and that really sounds different, it feels great, but I'm a bit sceptical how it will translate, and I'll measure it in a few days...
 
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Georgy said:
And really, that's the difference between FRFR's (difference in this case is probably not the precise word to use, but you get the jist of it)

I've recently learned to re-embrace FRFR, and I've learned that you can tweak and tweak and tweak your FRFR solution (be it a cab, passive FRFR or active FRFR or even a PA speaker), and no matter how much tweaking you do do, it'll sound different through the next FRFR solution that you plug into. That's FRFR. Some will be more flatter than others, some will have a warmer, more natural tone, and the next one will be different yet again.

And to finish my point, it's a mixed bag of lollies that you'll get when go direct to FOH etc because that tone will be different yet again. At the risk of sounding pessimistic, it's often a gamble going direct; your hope is that the sound guy has half a clue of what he needs to do, and secondly, you'd hope that your cab sims/IRs are on point..
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The problem is, I do the sound myself, we have no guy out front.
 
Georgy said:
At the risk of sounding pessimistic, it's often a gamble going direct; your hope is that the sound guy has half a clue of what he needs to do, and secondly, you'd hope that your cab sims/IRs are on point..
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How's it any more a gamble than miking up a cab at the venue?

merlin17 said:
Not necessarily. The difference between RCF NX12-SMA, Dynacord AXM-12a and Atomic CLR wedge are mostly in feel, the frequency spectrum is very similar (I had all three at the same time and settled with the Dynacord). Now I have a BlueAmps Spark FRFR cab (stereo) and that really sounds different, it feels great, but I'm a bit sceptical how it will translate, and I'll measure it in a few days...
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Any measurements of the Dynacord or BlueAmps Spark that you can share? ;)
 
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andyp13 said:
Both in front of me - The RCF on the dollar pointing up at not and the Q12 on another cab at head hight.
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I'm not sure how to read what you wrote there, but it sounds like one speaker was on the floor, and the other was raised off the floor. That will make a big difference by itself.
 
Rex said:
I'm not sure how to read what you wrote there, but it sounds like one speaker was on the floor, and the other was raised off the floor. That will make a big difference by itself.
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RCF TT08a is a wedge, do wedges pointing up still couple bass significantly on the floor?

And what's up with the specs, shows Frequency Response (-3 dB): 65 Hz ÷ 20000 Hz but the graph on their spec sheet tells differently... I can't figure it out.
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yeky83 said:
...do wedges pointing up still couple bass significantly on the floor?
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Yes. Set it up off the floor and you'll hear the difference right away.


yeky83 said:
And what's up with the specs, shows Frequency Response (-3 dB): 65 Hz ÷ 20000 Hz but the graph on their spec sheet tells differently... I can't figure it out.
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Looks like an inconsistency. ;)
 
yeky83 said:
How's it any more a gamble than miking up a cab at the venue?

Both are a gamble dude. You'll at least get amazing clarity from going FRFR as opposed to hoping the sound guy isn't too sensitive about being told where you think the mic should be placed in front of your cab. So yes, it's gamble either way. Same applies to the way your patches have been dialed in; in conjunction with the cab sims/IRs that you're using. At one venue that may sound awesome (which, to state the obvious, depends on AGAIN, your patches, and the PA, the room etc etc), and then at the next venue it could sound really 'thin' or whatever.

Unless it's your own PA, that you've spent time tweaking, your PA that you know intimately and always get the same consistent sound, then yes absolutely they ARE both a gamble. If you're taking your own PA from gig to gig then it'll always be the same sound, mostly anyway.
One isn't necessarily better than the next. Some say Jordan is the GOAT, others are Lebron all the way. Who cares. Whatever works for you is what matters most.
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Rex said:
I'm not sure how to read what you wrote there, but it sounds like one speaker was on the floor, and the other was raised off the floor. That will make a big difference by itself.
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+ 1! My cabs sound way to boomy on the floor.
 
merlin17 said:
The Dynacord is merely flat, I haven't measured the Spark so far...
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What are your findings about the Spark? I have the Dynacord and a Xitone. I ordered a very small custom made Blueamps for bedroom gigs ;-) - is the Spark as FRFR as they claim?
 
Hhuent said:
What are your findings about the Spark? I have the Dynacord and a Xitone. I ordered a very small custom made Blueamps for bedroom gigs ;-) - is the Spark as FRFR as they claim?
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They make custom stuff? What's the spec on yours? Speaker/tweeter size, coaxial, cab size and weight, etc. Stereo?

I kind of doubt stereo FRFRs, seems like there would be phase/comb-filtering type of issues with peaks and valleys in freq, which would lose the whole point of an FRFR. Probably still sounds great, but still, not an FRFR.

One stereo FRFR I think is interesting is Line 6 Firehawk 1500, seems like it might work cus it's huge, has a unique 6 speaker implementation, and cus Line 6 peeps know what they're doing dispite the occasional hate on this forum :p
 
yeky83 said:
They make custom stuff? What's the spec on yours? Speaker/tweeter size, coaxial, cab size and weight, etc. Stereo?
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2 x 6“ Carbon speaker + tweater, not coaxial, flat from 68 - 25.000 hz, 2 x 180 w, 43 x 33 x 20 cm, around 13.5 kg. Hopefully. Still being built. I wanted a small stereo box for home use, rehearsals, also for acoustic guitar...
 
yeah if one is on the floor and the other is on top of something at head height it's going to be a MASSIVE difference. can't overstate how big of a difference that will make.
 
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