For those wishing for an Archon in your Axe

Which one is the real Archon?

  • Part 1

    Votes: 10 45.5%
  • Part 2

    Votes: 12 54.5%

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
The hardest part of modeling an amp is getting the various controls to match the actual amp. If you don't care if the tone, drive, etc. controls behave the same it's much easier as we have software that learns the input EQ, output EQ and gain. The problem is then people go "the model doesn't sound the same as my amp if I turn the drive all the way up and bass all the way down".

So to accurately model the control behavior we need a schematic and the actual amp (as the schematics often don't indicate the pot tapers).

Truth is amps are more similar than people think. You can make almost any high gain amp sound like any other high gain amp with a few EQ tweaks which is basically what the designers do. For example a Bogner is basically a boosted Marshall with a different treble pot taper. Another popular new amp is basically just a JTM45 clone with a couple minor changes. In fact the schematic I got from the designer was a JTM45 schematic with markups. The scary thing I've learned is that a lot of these amp "designers" don't really even understand what they are doing. They don't have degrees in engineering and lack even basic circuit theory. They take existing designs and tinker with them changing circuit values. The basic topology of the amps are unchanged. So many of these new amps are nothing more than clones of old designs with some minor changes. Things you can do in the Axe-Fx with all the EQ options available.

There are only a handful of guys that really understand circuit theory and know what they're doing: Alan Phillips from Carol-Ann, Stevie Fryette, John Suhr, and several others. The vast majority are glorified technicians that are just making clones of existing designs with minor modifications.

A good example is the Marshall 18W. There are numerous clones and amps inspired by this design. The problem is that the original design is flawed. You can make that amp sound much better with some minor changes to the phase inverter (or grid stoppers) but none of these amps do that. They all use the same PI design which overdrives the snot out of the power tubes making the amp shift into Class-B operation resulting in fizz and crackling on the decay.




When I try to wrap my head around those concepts:

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif
 
Wow, I was so sure that the honk in clip 2 was a dead giveaway of modeling. I still haven't been able to get the preset, what amp was your base? Also what advanced Parameters did you have to tweak off the top of your head? Great work by the way!
 
I was assuming he meant new to the Axe because of the schematic part of the quote and Cliff had said previously he was in the process of adding the Model T.

If its an additional amp that would be cool though.
 
I was assuming he meant new to the Axe because of the schematic part of the quote and Cliff had said previously he was in the process of adding the Model T.

If its an additional amp that would be cool though.


oh, I've read other people speculating, but I missed Cliff confirming that he's doing a Model-T... that's awesome!
 
Wow, I was so sure that the honk in clip 2 was a dead giveaway of modeling. I still haven't been able to get the preset, what amp was your base? Also what advanced Parameters did you have to tweak off the top of your head? Great work by the way!

Base was the 5150III boosted with a TS808, super simple. I only tweaked the main page controls and upped the Definition a touch.
 
Agree with Cliff.
+1 for more FAS amps , love all these models for blues , rock, hard rock, metal side
 
For anyone curious, the 2nd clip was the real amp! Looks like people's guesses were split almost straight down the middle...

Wow. The clips seem almost identical, but the 1st section seems to have a bit more wallop in the palm mutes. Really interesting to hear that the better sounding clip was the Axe.
 
I (mostly accidentally) managed to match my Archon gain channel about 95%, just dialing by ear. I'm sure you could get it closer if you tweaked or tone matched.

Here's a clip, 1 part is the Axe, the other is the Archon DI'd through a Suhr Reactive Load, both into the same impulse and chain in my DAW:

- Any Guesses?

Enjoy!

PS the impulse is the Mesa V30 from the Ownhammer Heavy Hitters pack


Using my own Ir's this sounds like what I needed! Thanks man!
 
i found the real one because of the quality of the fizzz sound. i dont know how to describe but to my ears axe fx is always had fizzynes that has more resolution/high quality than the real amp counterparts
 
cliff I for one would love new high gain amps and could care less if the dials match. Most of us can't possibly own most of these amps so would have no idea or care what dials do what,really in comparison to real.

So please don't let that stop u from adding any cool amp!!!
 
cliff I for one would love new high gain amps and could care less if the dials match. Most of us can't possibly own most of these amps so would have no idea or care what dials do what,really in comparison to real.

So please don't let that stop u from adding any cool amp!!!

I agree the Archon would be a nice
Christmas gift but I get the logic behind it while many would not care
There will always be few that will say
Cliff modelled it wrong even though
All they have to do is play with the dials in reality
 
I agree the Archon would be a nice
Christmas gift but I get the logic behind it while many would not care
There will always be few that will say
Cliff modelled it wrong even though
All they have to do is play with the dials in reality

And so a very few care so much about the dial position that NO ONE gets the amp, EVEN THOSE who care about the dial position so much would rather NOT HAVE THE AMP? That (which doesnt sound like your position) is nearly the definition of insanity.
 
But...but...but...if you never played an Archon, and the dials in the AFII wouldn't match in the IRL amp...how would you know it's an Archon in the AFII? I mean, what stops you from pulling up any model, closing your eyes, and pretending it's an Archon. Which is exactly what @Sacha did to incredibly good effect.
 
But...but...but...if you never played an Archon, and the dials in the AFII wouldn't match in the IRL amp...how would you know it's an Archon in the AFII? I mean, what stops you from pulling up any model, closing your eyes, and pretending it's an Archon. Which is exactly what @Sacha did to incredibly good effect.

then who cares, if it sounds good, Id be fine if Sacha's sounds exactly like an ARCHON, but that would go the same for every amp. 99% of amps in here would fool me, that's why Im relying on a good honest company to not trick me.
 
Back
Top Bottom