For those using their axe with 4x12's...

rock15478

Member
For you guys who are using the standard guitar approach of using 4x12 cabs....and not FRFR....

How many of you still mic the cab?

Who now uses the direct out of the Axe and just uses the cab for their own monitoring? (with no mic)

Do you find that sound guys think it's weird that you want to go direct out rather than mic'ing a cab traditionally? I remember that one band who opened for my band about a year ago insisted on going direct out from his rig and the sound guy tried to argue with him saying that a mic on his cab would sound better. As if the sound guy knew what his rig would sound like direct out...right. Anyway, after much arguing, they went direct out and it sounded pretty extremely good to me (I wasn't expecting it to, however this is before I knew anything about modeling and what's it's truly capable of). He wasn't using an Axe-FX btw.
 
rock15478 said:
For you guys who are using the standard guitar approach of using 4x12 cabs....and not FRFR....

How many of you still mic the cab?

Who now uses the direct out of the Axe and just uses the cab for their own monitoring? (with no mic)

Do you find that sound guys think it's weird that you want to go direct out rather than mic'ing a cab traditionally? I remember that one band who opened for my band about a year ago insisted on going direct out from his rig and the sound guy tried to argue with him saying that a mic on his cab would sound better. As if the sound guy knew what his rig would sound like direct out...right. Anyway, after much arguing, they went direct out and it sounded pretty extremely good to me (I wasn't expecting it to, however this is before I knew anything about modeling and what's it's truly capable of). He wasn't using an Axe-FX btw.

Nope - direct out to the board with cab sim, and the cab gets the signal without cab sim.

If the soundman's suspicious, just tell him to humor you and try the direct out first during sound check, and if he hates it, throw the mic on. In the end, it'll work either way - just be diplomatic and don't piss off the sound man. :D
 
I mic my marshall cab up. Personally I think if you are going FR you should go all out, that way you get to know what your sound will be like across the board instead of worrying about matching tones FOH and miced up cab level.
 
Fat Albert said:
Nope - direct out to the board with cab sim, and the cab gets the signal without cab sim.

If the soundman's suspicious, just tell him to humor you and try the direct out first during sound check, and if he hates it, throw the mic on. In the end, it'll work either way - just be diplomatic and don't piss off the sound man. :D

heh...heh.. :lol: and DON'T point your 4X12 at the board either.... :oops:

I found that out the hard way after finding out he dumped my volume in the mix after the gig was over. :x
 
rock15478 said:
For you guys who are using the standard guitar approach of using 4x12 cabs....and not FRFR....

How many of you still mic the cab?

Who now uses the direct out of the Axe and just uses the cab for their own monitoring? (with no mic)

Do you find that sound guys think it's weird that you want to go direct out rather than mic'ing a cab traditionally? I remember that one band who opened for my band about a year ago insisted on going direct out from his rig and the sound guy tried to argue with him saying that a mic on his cab would sound better. As if the sound guy knew what his rig would sound like direct out...right. Anyway, after much arguing, they went direct out and it sounded pretty extremely good to me (I wasn't expecting it to, however this is before I knew anything about modeling and what's it's truly capable of). He wasn't using an Axe-FX btw.


I did both - mic and DI out, depends on a gig and knowledge of the sound guy. A lot of times I let them just mic it because I am just plain tired of explaining and getting either this weird look or "deer in the headlights stare"


Mik.
 
mik said:
I did both - mic and DI out, depends on a gig and knowledge of the sound guy. A lot of times I let them just mic it because I am just plain tired of explaining and getting either this weird look or "deer in the headlights stare"


Mik.

See, that's exactly what I've been worried about. Most sound guys think a direct signal is going to sound terrible in my experience. Really, it's just lack of knowledge. But, it makes their life easier if they would listen.
 
rock15478 said:
See, that's exactly what I've been worried about. Most sound guys think a direct signal is going to sound terrible in my experience. Really, it's just lack of knowledge. But, it makes their life easier if they would listen.

Most soundman are reluctant because they've had bad experiences in the past, and really, you can't blame'em. Honestly, it's really not that big of a deal to throw a mic in front - it's been done that way for ages before the Axe came out, and it still works. ;) Convincing the soundman that you're right and proving a point sure feels good, but sometimes it's just not worth the trouble.
 
I have to agree for one thing a lot of sound guys at small venues i've been to don't care to explore any new avenues of guitar technology or care to really be a sound guy lol, and if they aren't interested in getting it to work correctly they might just let it sound like crap and say "I told you it would sound bad". Not all sound guys are like this but there are plenty of people who don't really care to help, and i don't blame them with the abuse they receive night after night. Like one guy who we asked if he was going to mic our kick drum plugged a 58 in and threw it in the sound hole and said "now it's mic-ed". If you really want to go FRFR I would do it with a backup plan. Talk to the sound guy before hand if he seems reluctant or uninterested in doing it mic the cab and put your mind at ease, I wouldn't risk it a show over it.
 
rock15478 said:
Who now uses the direct out of the Axe and just uses the cab for their own monitoring? (with no mic)

Yup. When I run our sound, I use a 4x12 for myself and go direct to the board for FOH.

rock15478 said:
Do you find that sound guys think it's weird that you want to go direct out rather than mic'ing a cab traditionally?

All the time when we are playing through a house system. I don't have a problem with it if that's the way they want to run sound as I get similar tones both out of 4x12 and direct.
 
I'm thinking about doing this and running direct to FOH.

For those that have done it, have you noticed a more consistent tone in FOH compared to micing the cab? Or is it simply a convenience thing?
 
But the sound guy would likely only run 1 mic cable to your amp.

Plus, most PA systems are in mono at FOH anyway, so going stereo doesn't seem to be a big advantage.
 
4x12 onstage, direct out (with cab sim) to the board.
I haven't gotten too many stares from soundguys, but I've gone direct for many years anyway so I have the speech down. My triaxis also sounded quite good direct, so if they questioned I'd just say "trust me, it will be OK, but you can mic me if it sucks". Only time I got mic'd was in shows where I had to shove my stuff out there and be ready to go in a few minutes because there were lots of bands (they of course wanted me to play thru the twin that was sitting there but that wasn't going to happen...).

One odd thing I do: I program all of my sounds using a cabinet emulation of the cab I'm actually using (currently a recto 4x12) to make sure that what goes to the board is the essentially same as what I'm hearing. That's a bit of a compromise with certain tones, and I do make some exceptions where getting the perfect sound FOH means It will sound a little different to me, but for the most part I just adapt my patches to sound OK thru my 4x12. In addition to consistency between mains and my cab, there's more consistency patch to patch. I sometimes find that using dramatically different speaker sims between different patches changes my sonic footprint in odd ways, when those patches are used in the same songs. In a 3-piece that can be quite noticeable.
 
On stage I have a 4x12 + 2x12 without cabsims and additional a monitor with cabsims. Another signal with cabsims goes to the mixer.

My balls get fried and I have perfect sound control.
 
Superwaldi said:
On stage I have a 4x12 + 2x12 without cabsims and additional a monitor with cabsims. Another signal with cabsims goes to the mixer.

My balls get fried and I have perfect sound control.
This sounds like the perfect gig!
 
I've found that patches created using amp>cab, sound different running DI/FRFR and vice-versa. Still, I've done this with good results, pre-cab Output 2 to stage rig and post-cab Out 1 to FOH. Ideally, if you had an accurate IR of your exact cab and used that in all your patches your FOH should sound very close to your stage sound.
 
Yes, they sound different, but still good. I arranged myself in giving my recording sounds to the mixer and my monitor. My trademark ball frying sound is different, but still it pushs me from the stage. ;-)
 
Very satisfied with the sound of my 4x12 but still not 100% sure if the FOH sound (output 1) really smokes. Haven't played live with the AXE until now but in the rehearsal room it still sounds a bit too high and tinny to my ears. I know that this is normal and in the mix possibly everything sounds right. Maybe it's also the PA in our rehearsal room which is not the best in the world, I'm not sure.
I use the same RedWirez IRs (a Mesa and a Marshall 4x12) I use at home but with a slightly different patch. Maybe I should use IRs with a higher distance or a post eq after the cab - don't know.
 
Remember that the IR's are mic'd on the cone for the most part, while you are generally hearing your cab off-axis. This gets into the "beam of death" thing that has been widely discussed here and in other forums: your cab sounds much warmer off-axis than it does "in the beam". So the IR's tend to sound brighter than your cab unless you get down on the floor and sit right in the beam of your cabinet, in which case the sounds are much closer. I own several of the cabs that have IR's in the axe and the sims are quite close if you do this, but much harsher if you listen to your cab off-axis. Just to make it more painful, if you use beam-blockers or donuts to sweeten your cabs, then the IR's will always sound more brittle so you might have to use a different IR or put some EQ before your cab sim. It can be done.

I'm using a 4x12 recto (this month at least) and a recto cab sim on all patches. My FOH sound is a little brighter than what I hear on stage, but it cuts thru well so it works out just fine. It's certainly comparable to what I'd get if a sound guy stuck an SM57 right on the cone. I've purchased the acoustic foam to do "Mitchell Donuts" on my live cab but havent' installed it yet; that may require some tweaking of my FOH sound.
 
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