For new guys. FRFR vs real cabs - what to buy?

Starfighter

Experienced
This is intended for the less experienced/new Axe FX-user. I know this is a can of worms, but it´s been a never-ending debate as long as I have been on the forum - and I know a lot of people new to the Axe FX have difficulties choosing among all the different options of amplifying and presenting the sound the Axe FX produces. Also, we have bedroom players (like myself - I rarely gig, so that´s the first disclaimer in this post), studio guitarists and gigging guitarists here, playing all sorts of music styles. Each with different needs and preferences. So the second disclaimer is: It´s not really possible to provide general advice which will suit everyone. So I won´t. I will however give my two cents, based on my experience with the Axe FX and different types of amplification. (To avoid flaming, I will not mention the relevant brand names.)

First, a bit about my relevant background: I got my Axe FX 2 in early 2013, after using a Boss GT10 and a Peavey Valveking tube amp. After reading up on the forum and reading reviews and youtubing till my eyes bled, I went for an FRFR 1x12 monitor. It made me happy, although I felt it was maybe a bit lacking in depth and "feel". So, after more reading, I went for two other FRFR monitors, and felt an improvement. The move from mono to stereo also made a big difference. Been happy with that setup for a long time. Using the FRFR monitors for volume, a couple of studio monitors for when wifey is home - and headphones when she is asleep. I play a lot to backing tracks, so FRFR is really useful for that.

But still, you keep reading the forums - and you hear about this "amp in the room"-thing. I decided to try a flat power amp and real guitar cabs, so I recently got a set. I run this in addition to my FRFR rig, so my routing is like this:

Whole effects chain including CAB block -> Axe FX digital out -> Focusrite Saffire Pro40 audio interface -> FRFR monitors in stereo
Effects chain minus CAB block to FXL block -> Axe FX output 2 -> flat power amp -> two 212 guitar cabs in stereo, but stacked on top of each other

So. Does this "amp in a room"-thing make any difference? Yes, in my case it most certainly does. There was more punch, more feel and the sound felt more "organic". I tried using only one 212 cab - so it would be comparing two 12" speakers with two 12" speakers, not four. Same thing. Ok, so now I try running both the FRFR monitors and the cabs at the same time. Wow. The lovely stereo image provided by my FRFR speakers, with that stack of real guitar cabs in the middle providing punch and feel. The best of two worlds! I finally feel my Axe FX is given total justice.

(There´s a lot of information about eq´ing your FRFR monitors to make them sound more amp-in-the-room. I have tried it, and it is somewhat effective. However, again - FRFR amplification is supposed to give you the sound of the cab your IR represents through a microphone.)

So is my advice on FRFR vs cabs "get them both"? Well if you can... :) No. I was very happy with my FRFR setup, and I would be very happy with a amp+cab setup as well. The key here is realising the differences between FRFR (full range flat response) and power amp + guitar cabs. I will try to list the differences, I am sure people will chime in - as this forum is filled with lots of helpful people with a lot more knowledge and experience than me:

FRFR:

  • Full range flat response: The amplification will (ideally) not color the signals fed into it. Makes it possible to utilize the powerful CAB block in the Axe FX. Different IRs will hugely affect your sound.
  • Gives you the sound you would get from the real cab your IR is shot from, if it were mic´ed up and fed into your amplification
  • As such, very useful for gigging guitarists in venues using a PA - plug straight from the Axe FX into the PA/mixer - done.
  • As a guitarist, you might miss the sound and push from a real guitar cab - you are not used to hearing the sound of your mic´ed up cab.
  • However, that is what your audience will hear - hearing your guitar the way your audience hears it might be an advantage

Flat power amp + guitar cabs:

  • The sound you are used to hearing when playing real amps and cabs.
  • For smaller venues with no PA (pubs, etc.) - maybe this will do?
  • Will give a different sound than FRFR amplification (I like it, for me it feels more punchy and organic - for you, it might not be so)
  • There have been some that have used IRs with real cabs and liked it, but in general - you will not be able to use the CAB block and the countless IRs available
  • You will have to mic your cab if playing live at a venue with a PA. Or, you could still create your presets with cab blocks and run direct - but be sure to test those presets with some kind of FRFR amplification first, so you know what that preset will sound like for the audience. You might consider shooting an IR of your own cabs.

Ok - that´s a start. Hopefully, the knowledgable Fractalites on the forum will chime in here with more and better information. But please guys, let´s keep this thread informational and on topic. We have enough other threads were we can wage the FRFR vs cab war :)
 
I think the point this fails to mention, as do many of these types of threads is that it's not the amp in the room vs frfr tone, it's cab tone vs mic'd full rig tone. Also the ability to get the most out of each amp with IRs.
 
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I tried guitar cab first, but quickly traded for a CLR. The first option was awesomely great for some tones, and failed miserably with others. Just like using one IR for everything. I'm much happier with FRFR approach. Gigs are simple, just plug one cable and you're done.
 
I started out the opposite way. I had 2 412s and bought a power amp and ran the axefx thru that and was really happy with the sound for a couple of years. Then the band I was in decided it was time to buy some floor monitors and each member was responsible for their own monitor so I bought a Ev zlx 112p. after I got this thing home I decided to try it with the axe fx and at first I wasn't blown away but after I blended 2 cab irs. one ultra rez and one high rez it sounded really nice. I took it too the next practice and was like damn I don't even need the 412 anymore. I get a lot of punch thru that relatively cheap ev speaker so I prolly wont be going back to a 412.
 
I started using the Matrix FR212 (two actually) and haven't looked back since. So many possibilities with IRs and the gigs are easy setup
 
If you come from tube amps and are used to the sound it's hard to get used to the mic'd sound you get with FRFR.
FRFR is great for the mix/foh/recording but jaming or practice, nothing beats the raw cab sounds, especially if you're higain player.

I've tried to replace by 2x12 cab with 2 CLRs but I gave up after 2 months and sold them.
I use the Cab from Out 2 and FOH from Out1. Best of two worlds!
 
i am seriously overwhelmed on what to do. was hellbent on getting a CLR wedge but they are out of stock. I just play along to itunes and backing tracks in a 13x12ft room in my basement. Ideally i would like to have two cabs and spread them out so i can get a full stereo sound. i just wonder if two clr's are overkill, though from what i've read, they still sound great at low volume.

paralysis by analysis
 
i am seriously overwhelmed on what to do. was hellbent on getting a CLR wedge but they are out of stock. I just play along to itunes and backing tracks in a 13x12ft room in my basement. Ideally i would like to have two cabs and spread them out so i can get a full stereo sound. i just wonder if two clr's are overkill, though from what i've read, they still sound great at low volume.

paralysis by analysis

Get a small format mixer, a couple full range speakers and a stereo (2 channel) power amp. CLR's are great, I own a pair myself, but for a stereo setup you be into it for over 2 grand and that's a lot for non critical home use to play along with backing tracks. For example I use a Behringer 1204 mixer ($120) two Peavey 215's (700 watt RMS each) ($600) and a Behringer iNuke6000 ($400). I'm not saying you need to even spend this much, but I am saying any full range PA setup will work. Even non flat full range speakers will be fine.

I would recommend going to a music store and finding out which speakers/power amp sound the best and give you the volume you want when playing back your backing tracks or itunes, and look at it from a sound reinforcement standpoint as opposed to a guitar cab stand point.

As always, this is just one weekend warriors opinion, on the internet, on a forum, on a Saturday......
 
i am seriously overwhelmed on what to do. was hellbent on getting a CLR wedge but they are out of stock. I just play along to itunes and backing tracks in a 13x12ft room in my basement. Ideally i would like to have two cabs and spread them out so i can get a full stereo sound. i just wonder if two clr's are overkill, though from what i've read, they still sound great at low volume.

paralysis by analysis

it would be a killer setup, but two aren't necessary...it's about your budget and what you want to invest in your set up.
 
2 ev livex's and 2 desktop equators. One small behringer mixer for all plus computer


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