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For all the guys running mono

Sidivan

Fractal Fanatic
I'm supposing most of you are running copy L->R and into either a mono FRFR setup or a power amp. Do you find that you make sacrifices for this? Obviously ping-pong delay is out, but what about your chorus and reverb sounds? I'm still kicking around a non-IEM setup, but I'm wondering if I really need to go Stereo. Also, why would you run Copy L->R when a mono monitor only has 1 input? Wouldn't you just run the Left side in and all it good?

Obviously, there's a middle ground here; Mono into monitor while stereo into PA, but that doesn't solve the issue of hearing the stereo signal prior to a gig (dialing in the tone in the first place).

I know... I've gotta be the most OCD person here... sorry.
 
Unless you're playing in decent sized venues with competent soundman, my experience has been that stereo setups tends to be more trouble than its worth. The stereo effect is easily lost in a live setting if the venue's small, has poor acoustics, or if the soundman simply doesn't know what he's doing (which, unless you bring your own, is usually the case with smaller venues).

That said, if done right, they definitely add an extra layer to your sound. I just personally prefer to keep things simple. :)
 

mortega76

Fractal Fanatic
I used to run my two 4x12's in stereo... but wasn't truly happy with the sound of a 4x12 hitting my knee caps... then Jocke (Clawfinger) gave me the idea to go all 80's huge rack style by stacking the two 4x12's and now I'm happier than ever!!! I still run it in stereo mode but instead of ping-ponging anything left to right it will ping-pong everything up and down! :lol: As Fat A. said, it's more trouble than it's worth unless you're doing a huge gig with an awesome sound system. Even though I'm running two cabs the sound guys always just mic one cab... I let them do what they do, all I care about is that I can crank the shit out of my setup and be happy with it in a live situation... stereo or not.

The other problem I can see is if you have a stereo setup, you'd most definitely have to run either the Enhancer or if you have two guitarists you'd have to pan your guitar left or right depending on where you are on stage (because if not it's dead center, unless you run a slight stereo delay) then you'd have to adjust your patches accordingly depending on where you want your guitar signal to go... damn... way to much.
 

m lebofsky

Experienced
mortega76 said:
...... The other problem I can see is if you have a stereo setup, you'd most definitely have to run either the Enhancer ...... .

Why would you need to run the enhancer if your running stereo ?
 

mortega76

Fractal Fanatic
m lebofsky said:
mortega76 said:
...... The other problem I can see is if you have a stereo setup, you'd most definitely have to run either the Enhancer ...... .

Why would you need to run the enhancer if your running stereo ?
Well that's up to the player, but the default panning is dead center (without Enhancer)... I wouldn't want to hear two guitars (not to mention bass, vocals and everything else) dead center... I'd want the guitars panned Left/Right.
 

Gasp100

Power User
I have most of my patches dialed in using mono FX, but some use stereo delay. I have Copy L->R and I take the left output 1 to my Atomic FR. It sounds great, I may miss just some subtle details (as long as I'm not doing ping-pong or a super wide stereo delay or something). Most of my patches are now using the cabs set as Mono HiRes (with Red Wirez IR's). I only miss the stereo stuff with some highly effected patches using techniques to specifically draw attention to the stereo field. I use those patches for recording and studio/monitoring anyway.
 

mortega76

Fractal Fanatic
Gasp100 said:
I have most of my patches dialed in using mono FX, but some use stereo delay. I have Copy L->R and I take the left output 1 to my Atomic FR...
You had to rub it in didn't you? ;) :D
 

GM Arts

Power User
I'm also of the opinion that on-stage-only stereo is a really bad idea. I've tried it a few times (side by side, top and bottom), and in reality you hear 90% of the closest cab unless you're dead centre. For the audience, most of them will not hear your full sound. It's a bit better when sending L & R to FOH, and gets better with bigger concerts and sound systems.

So yes, copy L>R, and sending mono to stage monitor and FOH. No enhancer or stereo FX, so the focus is on good amp tones instead of fancy effects which suits what I do, but I can understand the dilemma for the players who like to get the most from the FX as well.

For recording ... stereo always :lol:

[edit: correction, I've been using L+R Sum, not Copy L>R]
 

Dpoirier

Power User
I never use "copy L>R" because you completely lose the right channel's signal. I use "L+R sum" instead. However, you do have to audition your stereo patches in that mode to see what the behavior is, and pay attention to the patches that have phasing issues when squished to mono that way (then, you can choose to flag them as "do not use when running mono", or otherwise fix them to avoid those phasing issues). And of course, you must never, ever use the enhancer (it has its place. for recording for example, but *not* for live use in mono).

And I still don't know why...
mortega76 said:
...The other problem I can see is if you have a stereo setup, you'd most definitely have to run either the Enhancer...
???!!??!??

I would have to disagree with that statement. Just get the sound guy to do his job properly for a stereo FOH (you can pan a stereo signal so that it is *not* dead-center). He would have to treat it the same way as most modern keyboards with stereo outputs, that's all.

Daniel
 
GM Arts said:
I'm also of the opinion that on-stage-only stereo is a really bad idea. I've tried it a few times (side by side, top and bottom), and in reality you hear 90% of the closest cab unless you're dead centre. For the audience, most of them will not hear your full sound. It's a bit better when sending L & R to FOH, and gets better with bigger concerts and sound systems.

So yes, copy L>R, and sending mono to stage monitor and FOH. No enhancer or stereo FX, so the focus is on good amp tones instead of fancy effects which suits what I do, but I can understand the dilemma for the players who like to get the most from the FX as well.

For recording ... stereo always :lol:

I think it's best to run in stereo, as long as you take the precaution of checking to make sure each channel sounds good by itself. For example, if there's a stereo chorus effect, it should sound like a mono chorus when one channel is muted. Same goes for the other effects.

This way audience members who can only hear one side still get the mono version of the stereo effect, and those fortunate enough to be able to hear both the left and right will get STEREO sound.

You'd also be surprised how much reflected sound in a smaller place is responsible for the perceived stereo effect. Try turning off the left side when standing on the right and you'll notice the drop out of the left more than you might think. Of course it depends on a lot of things like the reflectivity of the room, directivity of the speakers, etc., etc.

I can't live without my stereo. No way. Will never happen. With in ear monitors I always have perfectly balanced stereo. The PA and stage sound are adjusted purely for the benefit of the audience, not for monitoring. The audience deserves stereo.

That's just the way I do it. You don't have to always go mono to solve some of the problems mentioned.

Stephen Cole
 

torchlord

Inspired
Im just amazed that there is any soundman out there that would honestly want there PA setup up in mono. I mean after you hear the toms flow from one side to the other its just sweet.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
I've played a lot of shows, from the hole-in-the-wall clubs to the nicest rooms going; from theaters to national outdoor stages. I've never (knowingly) used a stereo board.

The stereo field would only work for folks in the 'sweet spot' and that's just not something I've seen (heard) done at the level shows I play at. I've not (knowingly) seen one soundguy that would give me two channels on the snake for one guitar signal. Not once.

Now, I imagine it's a different thing on the headlining circuit, but I'm just a weekend warrior slogging it out in bars and clubs mostly.

I run mono just to keep it simple. Stereo when I record, mono with I play out.
 

dk_ace

Experienced
I have been a mono player forever, but recently had the gear available to monitor in stereo onstage so I experimented with it.

My conclusion was that it wasn't worth it. I liked some of the subtle things I could do that you would hear in a recording environment, but I didn't find anything that I use consistently that made it worth the trouble to run stereo. That's just my opinion, but I just wasn't that impressed. I was blown away by the stereo effects I heard in some presets, but when I was examining it all in terms of what I would use in a gig I decided it wasn't worth it for me.

I don't use modulation effects often either, which is where I think the differences really shine for stereo. For my uses, mono is just fine for live use.

D
 

torchlord

Inspired
See this is how you do stereo. You dont worry about whether or not the sound man has a mic cable for you. Bring your own cables, and have them really long. So you just tell the sound man give you two channels and plug the wires in. Thats what we i did for our keyboard player for the few shows we did. They just took them and plugged them into there snake. It wasnt much of a hassle for the sound guy cause he just put it on a channel on the board that wasnt used, or tweaked for anything. Ofcourse i havent had that experiance yet, since i didnt have the axe back then, to see if id have issues with the axe. I personally think the stereo would be worth it, and its not that much more complicated, if you run into a mono system it just winds up having another layer for your guitar sound in a extra channel on the mixer board right? Ill have to test my stereo compatibility with my pa down stairs sometime.
 

Stratman68

Axe-Master
I have always used stereo out. I am in a studio enviorment only. But somewhat confused on the input 1 setting? Is there a general rule ro something? I use stereo in, but only because thats where it was to start with for me.
Thanks
 
in my experience the standard is for the stage to run 2 guitar mic's on a single cab... it's only the most amateur of venues that i have turned around and seen just 1 mic on my guitar cab.... so it will be no problem whatsoever for me to run a stereo signal to FOH... the lines are there 99 % of the time for 2 guitar signals

It allows for a bigger guitar sound in that unless you mic each side identically, there is a different tone on each side from simple difference in placement.. that allows the sound guy to pan left and right and have the guitar compete less with the vocals... this is a trick of higher level sound guys so you probably wont find your local in house doing it at small club venues
 
m lebofsky said:
mortega76 said:
...... The other problem I can see is if you have a stereo setup, you'd most definitely have to run either the Enhancer ...... .

Why would you need to run the enhancer if your running stereo ?

the stereo enhancer is only applicable to a stereo setup.. you would never ever ever use it if you are going to a mono output.. it would be a disaster

the reason you'd use the stereo enhancer when in stereo is that is designed to.... *drumroll*.. ENHANCE stereo.. thats what it does !

the idea is to play a trick on the brain of the listener so they feel like they are hearing 2 different things... the more different the left is from the right.. the more our brains perceive this as a big wide sound... lots of people like a big wide sound.. it sounds like 2 guitarists playing together.. another big benefit is that it makes the mix less center focused... suddenly the vocalist has so much more room to sit in the mix...

unfortunately you don't quite get this effect when you run 2 amps panned hard left and right.. this is because even though the amp tone is different, you are hearing the same guitar part... a lot of the signal is still perfectly the same from left and right so you still get this kind of centered mono sound but maybe with a bit of a wider spread... but its all up to you on how wide you can get it... but the wider you go, the less cohesive and focused your guitar part becomes.... its a real trade off.. you have to find that balance point where your guitar still sounds punchy and 'together' but wide enough to really sound massive

the stereo enhancer is there to help make that sound 'wider'... you could also achieve this by having 2 radically different guitar amp sounds panned hard left and right.. for example if you had a very clean fender twin on the left, and a very gained up mesa on the right the stereo enhancer would be far less useful as your left and right sounds are so different from eachother that they dont create any kind of mono perception out front
 

m lebofsky

Experienced
deadletter said:
m lebofsky said:
mortega76 said:
...... The other problem I can see is if you have a stereo setup, you'd most definitely have to run either the Enhancer ...... .

Why would you need to run the enhancer if your running stereo ?

the stereo enhancer is only applicable to a stereo setup.. you would never ever ever use it if you are going to a mono output.. it would be a disaster

the reason you'd use the stereo enhancer when in stereo is that is designed to.... *drumroll*.. ENHANCE stereo.. thats what it does !

the idea is to play a trick on the brain of the listener so they feel like they are hearing 2 different things... the more different the left is from the right.. the more our brains perceive this as a big wide sound... lots of people like a big wide sound.. it sounds like 2 guitarists playing together.. another big benefit is that it makes the mix less center focused... suddenly the vocalist has so much more room to sit in the mix...

unfortunately you don't quite get this effect when you run 2 amps panned hard left and right.. this is because even though the amp tone is different, you are hearing the same guitar part... a lot of the signal is still perfectly the same from left and right so you still get this kind of centered mono sound but maybe with a bit of a wider spread... but its all up to you on how wide you can get it... but the wider you go, the less cohesive and focused your guitar part becomes.... its a real trade off.. you have to find that balance point where your guitar still sounds punchy and 'together' but wide enough to really sound massive

the stereo enhancer is there to help make that sound 'wider'... you could also achieve this by having 2 radically different guitar amp sounds panned hard left and right.. for example if you had a very clean fender twin on the left, and a very gained up mesa on the right the stereo enhancer would be far less useful as your left and right sounds are so different from eachother that they dont create any kind of mono perception out front

I was not questioning the purpose of the enhancer. I was questioning your statement of, "if you have a stereo setup, you'd most definitely have to run either the Enhancer ......"
 
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